my dad lives in a bungalow in rural Herefordshire and has three cats and I'm just laughing at the idea of keeping them all locked inside, you couldn't even open the patio doors!
― A viking of frowns, (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 10:44 (two years ago) link
i would guess most new york city cats haven’t been outside in years. which kind of makes sense if you live on the 5th floor of a tenement. or i dunno maybe people walk their cats??
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:57 (two years ago) link
cats really love jumping several stories to their glorious deaths! so i suppose in the city I can see some people being overprotective...
― Nhex, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:09 (two years ago) link
If cats aren't allowed outside in NYC, my Brooklyn neighbourhood didn't get the memo. I might write them one saying "Please do not shit in our backyard".
― Alba, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:49 (two years ago) link
Ooh a back yard, lah di dah
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:57 (two years ago) link
The last place I lived where I had co-responsibility for a good number of indoor and outdoor pets, over half of the outdoor cats (plus a dog that got out of the yard) were hit and killed by traffic. One cat would only very hesitantly step outside before fearfully darting back in like a mole person. But then we also had a cat who would go 'camping' in the woods for days at a time and come bouncing back covered in mud and happy as a lark. In my experience, outdoors only works for some cats.
― Jerome Percival Jesus (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:59 (two years ago) link
cats are pretty terrible news for local wildlife, i say lock 'em all up
― building a hole (NickB), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:00 (two years ago) link
Our cat, Tuffy, goes out in the yard on a short leash. He talks to the birds, but he poses a much greater threat to the grass, which he consumes voraciously.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:02 (two years ago) link
When I was living in Paris, I knew plenty of people with "chats d'appartement". The cats though would get obsessed with the outside and I heard of several that jumped to their deaths from balconies. I used to watch one from my vis-a-vis, leaping from one narrow ledge on the fifth floor to another on the fourth.
― Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:06 (two years ago) link
I’m guessing the “shocked and appalled” part comes from the meat-grinder-like effect of outdoor cats on local wildlife rather than concern for the cats themselves. Let them play in traffic for all I care, just put a bell on them.https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
― Dan I., Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:26 (two years ago) link
I don't let my cats outside because I don't want them to get hit by a car or pick up feline leukemia. I'm not going to be a dick to people who let their cats out, but I think it's safer for them to be inside.
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:28 (two years ago) link
Today I learnt that the word "dunce" and the "dunce's cap" were named after followers of the medieval Scottish theologian John Duns Scotus. Formerly held in high esteem by the Catholic church, he and his followers (the Dunses) subsequently fell from favoiur during the Reformation. Apparently Duns Scotus advocated the wearing of conical hats to improve thinking (literally "thinking caps"), and this might be where the idea of wizards wearing such hats comes from.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:35 (two years ago) link
of course SCOTUS was involved
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:49 (two years ago) link
Our cat makes for a terrible outdoor cat, but that doesn't mean she doesn't try her absolute hardest to get out. She will be upstairs, curled up asleep, and hear the front door open and suddenly shoot outside like a rocket. We try really hard to keep her from getting out, but it's almost impossible, esp if you are ever trying to negotiate the door carrying any object.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 14:03 (two years ago) link
Welcome to east Prospect Lefferts GARDENS (aka Pigtown) my friend.
― Alba, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:03 (two years ago) link
We have indoor cats in a demiurban setting. I am both aware of, and not particularly outraged by, the existence of outdoor cats.
As NickB and Dan I noted, however, cats are known to be pretty destructive when it comes to birds and other wildlife. But I don't pursue this argument with my friends who let their cats out. I am not going to change their minds and they're not going to change mine.
Also, we have an indoor cat who got out accidentally once, and didn't return on his own. He was eventually found a few blocks away, behind a 7-11; we don't especially want to repeat that experience. If I could trust him to go out and come back, I might feel differently. Cats differ.
― balsamic panic (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:22 (two years ago) link
guessing this is a US thing?
Not just a US/Canada thing, no. I've witnessed it in several European countries.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:27 (two years ago) link
What I see frequently in my Brooklyn neighborhood is cats chilling on the sidewalk while their humans are hanging around nearby. Clearly there's a mutual understanding that the cat is not gonna suddenly bolt down the street. Then there are the bodega cats, which often wander out onto the sidewalk, but they have little incentive to go far - why would they when they live in a literal house of food. I have seen cats being walked on a leash/lead but that is rare.
Seems that the "keep your cats inside 24/7" idea has grown in popularity in the last 20 years, with more stories coming out about their effect on bird populations. Growing up in the 1970s we never thought of that, our cats went outside whenever they wanted to.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:46 (two years ago) link
it's my expectation of life in the UK that you will have a garden into which various neighbourhood cats will often wander (also the occasional fox and very occasional muntjac) but having lived in Prague/Beijing/Guangzhou/Zhuhai, where most people live in flats, I know that this is not the universal state of things. In China you sometimes see cats being walked on leads.
― A viking of frowns, (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:52 (two years ago) link
I live in an area of the country that is Lyme Disease central and would prefer not to have cats going out and bringing ticks inside.
― Notes on Scampo (tokyo rosemary), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:53 (two years ago) link
this is the thread I saw this morning which started this, just no idea that this was a hot issue online.
No, cats are not supposed to be outdoor animals. It greatly shorten their lifespan as well as it having a negative impact on local bird populations. Keep your cats inside or walk them on a leash if you must.— Nova🍓He/e (@RealityBent) May 22, 2021
― A viking of frowns, (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:02 (two years ago) link
Yeah not really into having my cats get in fights with the dozen or so local strays, or getting mauled by coyotes, or getting a bunch of cactus thorns in them
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:03 (two years ago) link
xp
I feel like getting an "outdoor cat" now just out of pure spite towards these people!
― calzino, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:08 (two years ago) link
Get an outdoor cat and refuse to let it come indoors, so it's truly an outdoor cat.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:12 (two years ago) link
"cats are not supposed to be outdoor animals"
however you feel about letting your cats be outside, this is obviously false
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:13 (two years ago) link
― calzino
The Larry David school of pet ownership.
― nickn, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:15 (two years ago) link
do agree about their negative impact on bird populations. In that Elizabeth Kolbert extinction book she wrote about how there is a correlation between bird extinctions in regions and humans reaching them with their cats, that stretches back thousands of years. The little furry murderers!
― calzino, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:16 (two years ago) link
there still seems to be a whole lot of birds, crows for instance
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:32 (two years ago) link
Crows can handle themselves
― Alba, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:36 (two years ago) link
My mum once wrote a letter to the newspaper about how cats should all wear bells to warn the birds.
god's perfect little killing machine, chaotic neutral.
a friend puts a colorful collar on her indoor-outdoor kitty to alert the birds.
― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:38 (two years ago) link
I struggle to square my full understanding of how much of an ecological disaster my cat is, how much he is contributing to vertebrate deaths in my area, and the fact that I love him to bits and he's a brilliant companion for my kids.Fwiw, it's clear to me that his outside life is rich and detailed and I wouldn't dream of keeping him inside - even with the full knowledge that our last cat was knocked over and killed.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:43 (two years ago) link
People who can't get over the idea that animals eat other animals shouldn't be allowed to have pets.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:52 (two years ago) link
My cats don't have fleas, they don't have ticks, they don't disappear for days on end, and they very likely will never be run over in the street.
― pplains, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:56 (two years ago) link
the cats I see are sometimes socialising in gangs of 4 or 5, have fights, rip open exposed bin liners to look for bin treats, are predating on birds, or just chilling out on top of sheds and always generally seem to be up to no good but essentially very pleased with their outdoors lifestyle.
― calzino, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:18 (two years ago) link
Imagine Top Cat indoors. It just wouldn't work.
― Alba, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:21 (two years ago) link
The person who posted the controversial tweet says the cats are living in a fool's paradise:
"But my cat likes it outdoors!" is not the excuse you think it is. You would not let your cat eat poison if they liked it would you? They are not able to understand the danger and harm so you have to take the responsibility.— Nova🍓He/e (@RealityBent) May 22, 2021
I watch the little building cat in the vacant lot outside my window, he couldn't catch a bird if it flew right into his mouth
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:24 (two years ago) link
We had an indoor/outdoor cat when I was a kid. Some things that happened back then:
- The cat bringing a dead bird to the house (presumably a gift for the family)- The cat bringing fleas into our house- The cat coming back once with a huge scar and lots of missing fur around one of his ears from a fight with a stray cat
So I have an indoor cat now. I sometimes let her out a bit in the backyard when I'm outside but that's it.
― silverfish, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:28 (two years ago) link
it's like the best of both worlds for indoor/outdoor cats. They get a mix of absolute freedom/soft domesticated luxury that dogs could only dream of.
― calzino, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:29 (two years ago) link
I had – no exaggeration – something like 20 cats and dogs while I was growing up. (Not at the same time, mind you.)
Only one of them lived past five, Cro Cat (1982-2000, RIP.)
― pplains, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:32 (two years ago) link
- The cat coming back once with a huge scar and lots of missing fur around one of his ears from a fight with a stray cat
Our cat came home one night with one ear almost completely severed. Fortunately, a vet lived next door and he came over and sewed it back on in our basement. Cat was NOT happy.
The same cat used to sleep in a neighbor's garage; we learned this the morning after a major snowstorm when he tried to come home through snow that was roughly waist high. He'd give a horrible yowl, leap as high in the air as he could, and splat down into the snow, then do it again and again until he finally made it across the street to our house, where we were waiting with towels.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:33 (two years ago) link
Oh, and they were either outdoors-only, or in/outdoors.
― pplains, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:33 (two years ago) link
having grown up in suburbs in scotland i think wholly indoor cats were close to unheard of (although that has changed, i know of multiple people who have indoor cats in the suburbs now, and i had a friend who adopted cats from the SPCA and they specified that they shouldn't let them out as they were close to a busy road) and the phenomenon seemed more common when i moved to vancouver.
when i got my cat i thought of letting him out but the combination of knowing that i wouldnt have much choice in where i lived, and therefore couldn't guarantee outside access once i moved out of the apartment i lived in at that time - which was a correct assumption, and the fact that literally everyone i knew in the city who had an indoor/outdoor cat had the cat either be killed or seriously injured outside by cars and wildlife when my cat was a kitten dissuaded me.
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 17:40 (two years ago) link
Both sides love their cats and just want them to have good, happy lives, p sick of the perpetual "omg you're a horrible person for doing" some thing that flows on social media.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
The important thing is to draw a thick, immovable line in the sand
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:17 (two years ago) link
For them to shit in.
― Alba, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:18 (two years ago) link
Yep, one of the most toxic developments of social media has been the overdriven shift from "oh, that's interesting, here's my approach" to "fuck you, that's wrong and you are one of the worst people on the planet for doing that differently". Which isn't to say the latter didn't exist prior to social media, but it's been amplified so much more and the lines getting drawn are even thicker and pointlessly.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:23 (two years ago) link
That's what happens when you allow cats access to social media.
― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:33 (two years ago) link
xpost I have a friend who has chronic depression that she's heavily medicated for and this social media motif has almost immobilized her in response to a recent local controversy that has divided the community.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 18:40 (two years ago) link