Buying A House: C or D?

P sure my parents were planning to leave the things that wouldn't transport well or that were built into the kitchen cupboards, etc, but a basement chest freezer is pretty mobile! The personal furniture the buyer wanted for free was kind of the last straw, I suspect. Idk about the laundry, now that you mention it? Is that normal?

I used to crow on threads like these about haha, my ZIP code is only $95/SF. Enjoy paying twice my mortgage on half my space!

But now, it's more like, Fuck. I'm going to be stuck here forever.

i think washer and dryer and kitchen appliances usually stay with the house in the US, even if they're not built into the cabinetry. maybe washer and dryer go if they're in the garage or a shed or something.

We got our basement chest freezer with our house! Mind you we have a tiny Toronto bungalow with weird basement stairs; no idea how they got it down there to begin with. When my Grandma sold her bungalow, the new owner didn’t want the freezer, so my aunt had to cut it in pieces to get it out as they’d remodelled the stairs since its purchase.

I’m glad your parents had a quick and profitable sale! I died looking at the listing, what a gorgeous place.

Incredible to think I imagined the possibility of buying a house 5 years ago. It’s up there with winning the lottery now.

caek, I think it is regional. In Virginia you get the appliances.

In Missouri, last I heard, you don't (or not all of them). So even if you're moving every year or two and you only have a Volkswagen or U-Haul, you're expected to be able to move washers and dryers.

In California they don't come with the house unless they're built in. I imagine a lot of sellers don't want to take them so they throw them in to sweeten the deal.

eh, they come with the house in california even if they're not built-in in my experience 🤷🏻‍♂️

that has been my experience as well.

It's not a law, though. Up to the seller.

in germany the seller takes their light bulbs

in Pomona the men come to get your Belgian things

In soviet russia etc

Incredible to think I imagined the possibility of buying a house 5 years ago. It’s up there with winning the lottery now.

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Tuesday, 25 May 2021 20:47 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Opposite progression here in pretty much the same kind of timeline, pandemic/wfh def a factor tho

The low end of the market is brutal here my brother bought a 2/1 Craftsman bungalow style house in 2007 or 2008 for $65k and a flipper just gave him $135k for it, zero upkeep has been done to it in the interim - needs a new bathroom, siding work, at least one new pier, and new AC.

sounds like your brother has good timing

Only in flyover country. He has fucked up twice in Maryland.

i know "location location location" is the most famous cliche on earth or whatever but it's pretty distressing to me what a small proportion of a home's sale price is, like, the value of the materials and labor that make up the house, compared to pure market forces.

but I also have no idea how hard building a house is, it seems like it would be very hard

W/D usually don't convey here, but the refrigerators do!

I suspect a lot re appliances depends on how recently the buyer upgraded their models...lots of ppl expect to upgrade in their new home, but otoh if your washer completely died 1 year ago and you bought a nice new one, maybe you take it? Idk I will never own a home at this rate.

SORRY I mean the seller, obv.

i know "location location location" is the most famous cliche on earth or whatever but it's pretty distressing to me what a small proportion of a home's sale price is, like, the value of the materials and labor that make up the house, compared to pure market forces.

Wow how can you afford not to tear it down and rebuild it just for fun

it's not really that weird that land is most of the value of a house when you think about why people actually live in certain places and not in others.

but I also have no idea how hard building a house is, it seems like it would be very hard

― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Tuesday, May 25, 2021 4:59 PM (five hours ago)

It depends on what you're building and where? I still remember driving through the midwest and seeing the trucks with the prefab houses on them. It definitely made me realize that when you grew up where there are earthquakes, there are a lot of types of construction that you just don't see, but that are super common in other places ... like all those brick buildings that are omnipresent on the East Coast in college towns.

But there definitely seems to be an increasing trend of prefab structures that go with the "tiny homes" trend. Like, you can basically buy a prefab accessory dwelling unit to put in your backyard that meets national building code and residential code standards.

The replacement cost of my house is under 20% of its value. The rest is land.

that's actually pretty high! ... idk, I am used to looking at this stuff for commercial buildings where the land is like worth a million dollars and the structure is "worth" like $100k or less ...

commercial structures seem like they would be cheaper per per sq ft to build than houses?

depends on the structure tbh; some are cheaper, some are way more expensive. The actual construction materials and labor (the hard costs) are only part of it -- you also have to deal with engineering, architectural, permits, etc. ... Housing tends to be viewed as a "public good" as opposed to certain types of commercial structures, where the permit fees are often higher. A one story storage warehouse is more likely to be cheaper to build than a single family home. If that warehouse is actually going to be a Home Depot or big chain retail store ... the construction costs might be similar to if it was Random Warehouse Inc. but throw in a large corporation and retail and parking and traffic, and cities will (in my mind, rightfully) charge the companies a lot of money in impact fees, plus all the EIRs and traffic studies, etc. And then you get into things like hotels or an office tower that's like over 6 stories? ... Definitely not cheaper in California. .. Though actually, I could be wrong ... you probably could code a bot that could get this actual data.

Interesting thread on the crazy housing market we are in

6 of 15: Lumber prices are up 300%.

— Glenn Kelman (@glennkelman) May 25, 2021

Does not look much like 2006, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's sustainable or not some kind of bubble. I could see the trend of WFH professionals moving to rando small cities potentially starting to reverse or at least subside. I can't imagine every facebook programmer that moves to Boise is going to be happy there or that there's an endless supply of people willing to do so. Regardless, creates an extremely shitty situation for people who's job is tied to location, which jobs also happen to usually be the lower paid ones.

SRY thread starts here

1 of 15: It has been hard to convey, through anecdotes or data, how bizarre the U.S. housing market has become. For example, a Bethesda, Maryland homebuyer working with @Redfin included in her written offer a pledge to name her first-born child after the seller. She lost.

— Glenn Kelman (@glennkelman) May 25, 2021

I know Zillow zestimates are of limited reliability, but mine is up 8% since I bought my house in September, in an already frenzied market

posted here yesterday fyi

Ah. It has disappeared into the "skipping" black hole and I didn't see it.

since we've skipped back, I want to take the opportunity to commend caek on his data visualization!

They make a big point of "it's not just the big cities" but... it kind of is? The big cities and their greater metros? 3-bedroom houses in Bakersfield are going for $350K. Under $300K in Fresno. I just think if they mean "coastal California from the Bay Area to San Diego" they should say so.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, May 25, 2021 2:51 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

nowhere in CA is housing good and affordable

The amount of substandard housing in Fresno is shocking.

It's even more shocking when you consider that the city has had some of the nation's highest rent increases over the past four years — including during the pandemic. https://t.co/XvVysIia9x

— Liam Dillon (@dillonliam) June 8, 2021

it actually doesn't take much for housing to be categorized as "substandard" ... like, I would be shocked if a city had a very low percentage of housing that was "at least" substandard. Basically, it's a technical term that means "not up to code, but not that bad." There are two levels of "worse" above it.

If the tweeters are using "substandard" to refer to all non-code compliant housing, including housing that has major life-safety hazards to the extent that people should not be living there then it's kinda different?

It's like saying, "the amount of not good cops in America will shock you" ...

Our house is 150 years old and sinking into the earth

i.e. substandard

i don't know if dillon is using it in the technical sense but 1) fwiw he's the housing reporter in sacramento for the biggest newspaper in california, so he might? 2) i think his point is clear in any case

fun fact: we're having a fence raised 2 feet right now by a contractor, and we stipulated the appearance of the wood in the contract and that it should be "hardwood" to match the existing stuff and our contractor took on the risk of finding the wood for an agreed cost to us.

wood is in such short supply/so expensive right now that our contractor could only find ... i'm not kidding ... walnut. the fence in our back yard is now walnut. and our contractor is out of pocket several thousand dollars (he'll make it back on the rest of the job).

well that is definitely hardwood

lmao

i suppose it could have been a fence made from 1930 Martin guitar fretboards

also i challenge the next strong wind to blow ~your~ fence down

fkn come at me bro lol

Seems like anyone building fences would be a little bit of a wall nut.

My god, that's almost...immoral. Walnut! Did they have trouble driving fasteners through it?

i have to replace my 20x16 detached garage by October and the wood prices are terrifying me

Mid century modern fencing

Are other supplies as bad as lumber rn? We are planning our bathroom renovation which probably will not require any lumber (not changing the layout) but curious about tile and other stuff.

Oh hi, I am in the midst of a gut reno of a 1920 bungalow. Pro tip: order appliances at least 10 months before you need them, because that's how long it will take for them to deliver. Toilets, on the other hand, are only 6-12 weeks out.