Saturday Night Live

The opening didn’t make me think anyone might leave…but Cecilys bravura Jeanine Pirro weekend update performance felt like a sort of send off.

agree, re: the Pirro bit. very much a send-off.

the opening itself didn't feel final - esp. for Kenan or Pete, idk know where ppl are getting that? - but McKinnon and Bryant's emotion did feel like something was up.

also agree that Anya was a great host, much more natural than most. and that the episode overall was just a bit better than usual.

idk, i still like this show even though they have real clunkers too often.

@4:50 possibly the most disturbing shit I've ever seen on SNL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc0FeUMQIA4

Man, that's some early Ferrell! And-despite probably watching that ep when it aired-I totally forgot that Nancy Walls and David Koechner were on SNL.

One of my all-time fave sketches.

I see awful late-90s SNL castmember Jim Breuer is refusing to perform stand-up in venues that require proof of vaccination. From that era are all the men officially now either a "cancel culture/you can't say anything anymore" conservative or just full-blown right-wing nutjob?

Roughly 86-94 it's a definite majority (Mike Myers excepted). Bruer seems more like a holdover from that era, I think of late 90s as starting to be informed more by the Adam McKay-Will Ferrell sensibility.

Might be due in part to where SNL was harvesting their talent. Stand-ups vs. improv players. Or maybe not. But it fits.

Oh no, Jim Breuer, please. Please don't withhold your comedy magic from us, please. If I don't get to see you do Goat Boy in your mid-50s I might as well be dead from COVID.

Chris Rock and Kevin Nealon still have their heads on straight (Rock just got Covid, btw). Carvey seems old these days and a bit baffled by some aspects of modern culture but he doesn't strike me as a reactionary loon. But Miller, Lovitz, Schneider, Breuer, not to mention Victoria Jackson... a lot of brainworms there (actually I'm not sure if Lovitz is a pain in the ass or not, I seem to remember him getting fairly conservative post 9-11).

I finally went and started watching Norm MacDonald's talk show on Netflix last night, forgot that Spade actually seems like an alright guy these days.

Yeah, Spade's ok.

don't forget Sandler... not outspoken but a quick Google reveals he's got a history of donating to Trump, Rudy, etc.

xpost Based on what? He's one of those "I don't talk politics" guys, which is a bit like calling yourself an independent, which is a bit like being a Republican.

Norm flirted with some reactionary/conservative stuff, but he might have just been poking bears. Lovitz I thought skewed conservative, but it's hard to tell if whatever I read once (I forget) was inaccurate, a one-off, or if he did a subsequent PR rehab move. For example, Tom Brady got tainted by the Trump stink, but I sense he's made a concerted effort to destink himself via smart PR moves and, one suspects, bathing in tomato juice. My Brady stan buddy insists he was never a Trump guy, but regardless I explained to him that the perception that he was, er, trumps whatever his personal views may actually be.

There's some debate/confusion about Sandler.

It might very well be a different Adam Sandler. Read this article about a street busker named Adam Sandler from Ashland, OR.
Beneath Elmo’s Mask, a Man With a Disturbing Past https://t.co/g5UKumVYpN

— Jonathan Small 😗🎶 (@JonathanBSmall) August 9, 2019

hmm. so the public record Trump donations are unlikely. However, more reputable sources suggest he has a history of being a registered R and apparently performed at their convention in 04? I don't remember that but I was mostly off the grid in the lead up to that election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3PP_SWHUQQ

probably the best troll ever

I finally went and started watching Norm MacDonald's talk show on Netflix last night, forgot that Spade actually seems like an alright guy these days.

― akm, Monday, September 20, 2021 10:29 AM bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, Spade's ok.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, September 20, 2021 11:06 AM bookmarkflaglink

xpost Based on what? He's one of those "I don't talk politics" guys, which is a bit like calling yourself an independent, which is a bit like being a Republican.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, September 20, 2021 11:31 AM bookmarkflaglink

Based on podcast interviews and Stern show appearances in recent years. Most of these guys who peaked in the early 90s grump about the comedy police and all that bullshit, but Spade sounds aware of where he went wrong in the past, acknowledges why it sucked, and doesn't do it anymore without being shitty about it.

He's no hero, but he's more mature than a lot of these ball bags.

I can see why comedy guys don't want to talk politics. The audience who will pay to see a comic who was on SNL in the 90s probably has a higher percentage of conversatives than your average UCB show. Gaffigan was staunchly apolitical until Trump drove him nuts.

Norm flirted with some reactionary/conservative stuff, but he might have just been poking bears. Lovitz I thought skewed conservative, but it's hard to tell if whatever I read once (I forget) was inaccurate, a one-off, or if he did a subsequent PR rehab move. For example, Tom Brady got tainted by the Trump stink, but I sense he's made a concerted effort to destink himself via smart PR moves and, one suspects, bathing in tomato juice. My Brady stan buddy insists he was never a Trump guy, but regardless I explained to him that the perception that he was, er, trumps whatever his personal views may actually be.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, September 20, 2021 10:31 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Norm's such a pure comedian that you can kinda ignore his political views, which are generally pretty bad - he cozied up to Kellyanne Conway at one point which was pretty gross and was really vocal about Shane Gillis being fired from SNL, which was odd because Gillis is such a hacky comedian, idk why Norm would stick his neck out for someone like that.

as for Tom Brady...hate to defend the guy but iirc his association with Trump was in 2015 when he was still a joke candidate, I don't think it went much further than "ha ha we are both famous people". like Norm I feel like Brady might be the kind of person with no real political views whatsoever

Like I said, it's a matter of perception. Brady for sure considered Trump a friend, and there was at least one appearance of Brady's where he wore a MAGA hat. I think the blowback was strong and he kept mum after that, but I've noticed he still continues to take baby steps away from Trump. There was a Stern interview in 2020 where Brady said, diplomatically, that Trump was just a friend, and a friendship doesn't mean political support. And then there was this past summer where Brady actually made an appearance with Biden and threw a couple of more pointed zings Trumps way, followed (or preceded?) by an interview where he basically threw Trump under the bus as a star fucker who kept calling him and bothering him and asking him to go golfing. And then (along with the hair transplant) comes a series of self-effacing TV ads that I see all the time. Feels very image makeover to me.

I feel like Brady might be the kind of person with no real political views whatsoever

I feel like one thing that is easy to forget for those of us who are online all the time is that lots of people, maybe even most people, don't have particularly strong political views -- like, even if they have a party they usually vote for, they just do not *care* that much.

Brady's political views probably resemble those of most politically casual people with a net worth well over $100 million. iow, he mainly wants to be rich and stay rich and favors any policies that support those goals.

In fairness to the 80s/90s SNL era it did produce a liberal United States senator.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/snl/images/c/c2/SNL_Phil_Hartman_-_Ted_Kennedy.jpg

no one is apolitical. even trying to avoid politics is a political act.

xpost Based on what? He's one of those "I don't talk politics" guys, which is a bit like calling yourself an independent, which is a bit like being a Republican.

Norm flirted with some reactionary/conservative stuff, but he might have just been poking bears. Lovitz I thought skewed conservative, but it's hard to tell if whatever I read once (I forget) was inaccurate, a one-off, or if he did a subsequent PR rehab move. For example, Tom Brady got tainted by the Trump stink, but I sense he's made a concerted effort to destink himself via smart PR moves and, one suspects, bathing in tomato juice. My Brady stan buddy insists he was never a Trump guy, but regardless I explained to him that the perception that he was, er, trumps whatever his personal views may actually be.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, September 20, 2021 8:31 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lovitz had a bit in his standup in recent years that was so transphobic/homophobic that I'm not even going to post it here

Yah my impression is that Lovitz is closer to Dennis Miller than Dana Carvey or even quiet moderate Repub types like Sandler

He's actively Trump at least based on some Twitter exchanges I've seen

It sucks because Lovitz is one of my all-time fave SNL players, and I love 'The Critic' too.

one of the all time great cast members

Plus he beat up Andy Dick that one time.

Been watching NewsRadio with my daughter and there's this whole heavy who-knew-what-the-future-would-hold vibe

Still hilarious

the standups vs improv thing cited by Johnny Fever i think is a huge part of the conservative dynamic of many of those SNL dudes. theres that tension in standup of alternately getting the audience to like you and then transgressing, which so often translates into that certain kind of reactionary personality of deep down believing youre a Good Guy, and also I should be allowed to say and do whatever I want because aint I just a stinker? Vs improv where getting the audience on your side is not the end all be all of the form.

that being said, that Norm clip is a great example of his weird unique ability that allowed me to stand it when he spouted off stupid conservative bullshit like that. the way the interview goes from normal to unsalvageable tire fire in no time flat is imho impossible not to find amusing.

It is, as Conan noted, that devilish glint in his eye that lets him get away with it. He's a troublemaker but he's not smug or mean or arrogant (like, I dunno, Bill Maher). He plays the naif, perfectly.

he talked a lot about going on Bill Maher's show and how stupid it was that everyone had to have an opinion on everything and how they were all given equal weight, even when he was sat next to people who literally wrote books on the subject. Norm was anti-intellectualism when it came to his profession - "every comedian these days wants to be the smartest person in the room, and there's nothing the audience hates more than that"

I wasn't amused in the slightest by Norm's appearance on The View. Like, I guess you are supposed to be amused that he's trolling and/or skewering the format and/or existence of the show?

Okay but if you hate the format and/or existence of The View so much that you're amused by seeing it trolled / skewered, what the fuck are you doing watching The View?

I've also seen his moth joke on Conan praised a lot. It's a decent joke. I guess you're supposed to be amused in a "omg so meta" way that he's extending a 45-second joke into a 5-minute bit, and it's... like... a comment about jokes? Or a comment about the absurdity of late-night shows?

Okay but I am not quite seeing how the audience for (form of entertainment) and the audience for (instances of deconstructing and/or mocking the existence of said form of entertainment) are the same audience.

I find these awkard extended quasi-PoMo bits kinda cringey, personally, but evidently it is a taste. De gustibus and all that

I always assumed he didn't write the moth joke, another in his sort of old-fashioned arsenal, it was his way of telling it that made it pop. It's in its own way like a clean version of "the aristocrats."

the moth joke works because of the delivery

I think the point is whoever invited him to be on The View in the first place clearly didn't understand his style of comedy but instead just knew him as an SNL alum that appeared in an Adam Sandler movie. I didn't really find it funny either but it's kind of like the roast and everything else he does, he never just plays along

the brilliance of the moth joke is that it starts off incredibly hacky and becomes such an engrossing story that by the time the punchline comes in you almost forget it's supposed to be a joke. and of course the punchline is exactly what you expect it to be but still you don't really see it coming. yes a lot of it is just trolling the audience but it's also masterfully done. I'm not sure how many other comedians could pull that off.

Okay but if you hate the format and/or existence of The View so much that you're amused by seeing it trolled / skewered, what the fuck are you doing watching The View?

The prime audience for that bit is Norm himself, and if anyone else likes it that’s a bonus. The audience laughter indicated that many people who like the format and existence of The View enough to attend a taping did also like it.

(This could be because aiui part of the format of the show depends on tension between the hosts, not universal agreement? Or possibly just because Norm was a very funny human. Or because they simply got a mischievous thrill from seeing the format they enjoy punctured briefly.)

I may be wrong but I really don't think the Clintons/View thing is him doing a bit or trolling. I think he genuinely hated the c's and genuinely liked bush. He is practically vibrating from how nervous he is imo

I dunno, he exudes the exact same demeanor in the famous Conan/Carrottop clip. It's like he knows he's in trouble but he can't resist doing more, if only for his own amusement.

Just listened to Conan's podcast, the moth joke was just this old dumb 10 second joke he had heard from Colin Quinn at some point.

Anyway Conan said that Norm thought he was only on for one segment and then Conan says "We'll be back with more Norm Macdonald"...Norm is like I've got nothing and Conan says we'll just figure it out

So Norm freestyled that whole Chekov thing for 7 minutes because that's how much time he had to fill

it's... like... a comment about jokes? Or a comment about the absurdity of late-night shows?…

I find these awkard extended quasi-PoMo bits kinda cringey

Ymmv as far as thinking the moth joke is funny but it feels worth it to point out that the ‘shaggy dog story’ isn’t some ultra meta post-everything gen X anticomedy thing but rather a form of humor that has existed for hundreds & hundreds of years

the ‘shaggy dog story’ isn’t some ultra meta post-everything gen X anticomedy thing but rather a form of humor that has existed for hundreds & hundreds of years

Pretty sure Macdonald was on record as hating Andy Kaufman-type "anti-comedy" shit.

I think the target for the moth joke(and most of his Conan appearances) was Conan himself, who knew what Norm was doing immediately and trying painfully not to break up early.

dunno, he exudes the exact same demeanor in the famous Conan/Carrottop clip. It's like he knows he's in trouble but he can't resist doing more, if only for his own amusement.

I’m pretty sure he strongly disliked the Clintons, and doubt he thought either of them literally personally murdered Foster, but neither of those affect whether he was trolling. The second he gets the “shut it down” reaction, his imp kicks in and his focus becomes ju-jitsuing the hosts into keeping it going themselves.

Norm clearly despised the left, and there are plenty of clips of him praising Trump. I frequently didn't find his schtick very funny (the View, the Bob Saget roast, and the moth thing get old fast), but some of his stuff just slays me (the 'battle axe' segment on Conan, the Kojak impression with Seinfeld). He was a complicated guy: very intelligent and well read, which makes the puerile 'bro humor' side to him all the more puzzling.

Aside from that, his impression of Mitch Hedberg at around 3:40 here is a delight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVyA6h-K_Lc

(So is the Dangerfield stuff with Seinfeld at 8:20.)

yeah there's no need to dress it up, norm had shitty, reactionary politics and was homophobic and mean at times

at times