Defenestrate Them All: Canadian Politics 2021

It’s being characterized as censorship, but I’m not sure that it is.

But... how do you make sure that 30% of the content on something like Youtube or Tiktok is Canadian?

I think it’s mostly via adjustments to what the algorithms promote rather than quotas on what you can access.

Wow, Cancon algorithms on user-generated content platforms sound kind of fascinating.

It quite likely is a bit of a mess, might just not work, but I’ve never really been anti-cancon regs in the past. (If we’re gonna rehash that, my position is something like arguing even the mediocrity was invaluable for its existence as a shared experience.)

Main point is that it probably isn’t as Orwellian as some would have us believe. I’m going to read up more on it tomorrow I think.

CanCon & stuff like the Canada Council & FACTOR have been, I think, a net positive for Canadian cultural industries, & maybe even for Canadian culture full stop, notwithstanding the distorting effect they have on the actual art, & propping up the relentlessly milquetoast etc. I’m honestly in support of anything that would even approximate their effect in the digital realm.

Grants for culture are good. Quotas for content I'm a little less sure about, in principle. I do think they have been successful in achieving their intended effect of stimulating an industry. I was being serious that the idea of algorithms that approximate their effect sounds kind of fascinating, though: I'm not much of a programmer but I don't quite know how that would work.

In what sense do you think Canadian culture has gone off a cliff, Kim?

But... how do you make sure that 30% of the content on something like Youtube or Tiktok is Canadian?

Same thing radio's been doing for decades: Guess Who YouTubes, Guess Who Tiktoks, Guess Who everything.

Wow, Cancon algorithms on user-generated content platforms sound kind of fascinating.

― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, May 17, 2021 11:40 PM (yesterday)

There are valid concerns with how platforms make content (UGC or otherwise) prominent / discoverable, but the problem with a hypothetical Cancon algo is: how do you regulate the algorithm? Who checks that individual users are being recommended the Cancon quota? Does it matter if they choose to not watch any of it? Given that last point, surely it's better to increase support on the grant side—as hardcore dilettante says—and then to regulate the platforms not as "broadcasters" but with a clearer idea of how they actually operate and what kind of power they have over cultural production

Tbc I do think there are problems of a "Cancon" nature. For one thing, all the platforms I use in Quebec* have me identified as anglophone, and I never get recs for francophone content. And from what I've read, platforms like Spotify are just kind of bad at handling French-language Quebecois music.

* Actually now that I think about it, this is not true of the iTunes Store, which alone seems to recognize bilingualism as a feature of QC life.

Sund4r, you might find this interesting; it's not about cultural protection algorithms, but: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1369118X.2016.1271900

“ off a cliff”, well ok, aside from watching Canadian politics (especially the politics of everyday people) increasingly in lockstep with a two party mentality, I’m imagining if ilx started today populated by people of the same age we were in 2000, I don’t think they’d have near as much experience that they considered distinct from the American posters. The touchstones we had just don’t exist for them - they’ve grown up online. In terms of arts, what new “uniquely Canadian things” with large scale relevance are there for us to discuss? Canadian artistic significance now is more deeply tied to international significance. Arguably beneficial for the quality of art produced, but the price is assimilation.

@rob, I'm an anglophone in Québec who listens to quite a lot of francophone music and the Spotify and YouTube algorithms correctly push that content to me, as if they've identified my bilingualism.

Ottawa-area vaccine bookings seem to be a mess this morning. The earliest I could get was June 22. No booking options at all at the central downtown location.

Ottawa's vaccine distribution is going to be super screwed up because City Hall was probably going to be one of the largest locations because of the dense central population and NO ONE was able to book there. This then sent an overflow to the suburbs and is creating a large wait

— BudrinoU (@Budrino) May 18, 2021

Yeah, spotify pushes some Québecois music at me from time to time and I don't really listen to that much of it.

I'm guessing my "Discovery Weekly" will be required to be 30% Canadian or something like that if C-10 passes? I would be fine with that. Honestly, the best way to do this for me would be if Spotify algorithmically found local Montreal bands that align with my listening habits.

That's useful to hear sean & silverfish, thanks. A key theme in these debates is the degree of "training" recommendation algorithms need. Would a brand-new Spotify account serve you those same QC recommendations? It's very difficult to say before we even get to "should".

It is pretty easy to imagine a Cancon system for a platform like Spotify. It gets trickier when you include platforms like YouTube and TikTok that combine industry and user content (also Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Google Search, etc.). Or smaller platforms like Bandcamp, podcast apps, etc.

Actually my favourite platform test case for these discussions is Twitch

I’m imagining if ilx started today populated by people of the same age we were in 2000, I don’t think they’d have near as much experience that they considered distinct from the American posters.

Isn't this also because Canadian artists and products are achieving greater international renown without needing to leave the country, though (from the hegemony of Drake/Weeknd/Bieber on the pop charts to the international successes of Schitt's Creek and Murdoch Mysteries to even the prominence of Canadians in indie rock)? The situation seems pretty different from what it was in 1970 when Cancon regulations were first introduced. We've even got our own terrible alt-right Youtubers. What exactly is the problem that this bill is seeking to solve?

god I didn't even think that J0rdan P3terson could be considered cancon

(I would obv listen to Gowan and Harmonium before Drake myself, don't get me wrong.)xp

This article seems helpful, rob.

I love the idea of Mathieu Bock-Côté as CanCon.

true, Canada has punched well above its weight in unleashing fascists on the world

And tbf to Bill C-10 (lol), that is one good reason to put YouTube under a broadcasting regulatory regime

I don’t have any answers here, but the problem with simply throwing money at cultural production is that it’s less than half of the conversation. Thanks in part to the Canada Council et al, there’s way more Cdn art being produced than consumed. Our ecosystems need nurturing, not just seeds planted. Or something.

Re Ontario school reopening: even as a teacher, I'll defend Ford here. He's in an impossible bind. He has the Pediatric Society urging him to reopen (understandable), some doctors saying reopen and some saying continue remote, the teachers threatening an injunction if he reopens, plus parents of course (not sure what the percentages are there). How can you possibly thread that needle?

https://www.ontario.ca/page/reopening-ontario

A lot to read.

Almost under 1,000 today, but it's hard not to wonder if the numbers are being massaged via intentionally reduced testing (shades of Trump):

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-testing-ontario-reopening-1.6030981

Defenestrate the catholic church imo.

and the canadian state while you're at it

can only be the tip of the iceberg of disappeared children of the residential school system. just horrendous

Yeah I anticipate we are going to uncover more of these.

That it was the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc that hired a specialist to actually find the bodies is tragic.

it's quite obscene

I know this is a political thread and I post COVID news here...I just figure it's of more interest to people who read this thread than the general COVID threads. Anyway, Ontario dropped below 700 cases today--we're rapidly declining. (I still remember the panic last fall when we exceeded 500 cases a day.)

208 new cases in Quebec today. Only 35 in Montreal.

Canada killing the vaccination game

We still seem to be at 5.5% fully vaccinated (vs 40% in the US, 38% in the UK, 16% in France)?: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html

#7 in the world for first dose, though.

first dose gives over 80% immunity after 2 weeks, second dose is just a booster that bumps it up by another 10pp (maybe, estimates are imprecise). so it doesn’t make sense to give a second dose before a first dose when supply is constrained

if i were in the uk i would have gotten my first vaccine after i did here in bc (the uk gov thinks i still live at my parents' place and my envelope for vaccination arrived the day after i received my first vax last week)

also they bumped up the date to second dose from 4 months to 50 days, so i suspect that means we’ll be killing it on 2 doses by mid-summer too

yeah, people i know who were vaxed earlier for reasons (older, work in front line blah blah) are booking appointments for their second vaxes for mid june. i expect to be fully vaxxed by some time in july. really stoked after worrying earlier in the year about the vaccine rollout here.

the hiccups were suspenseful def but if u look back at the timeline vaccine contracts announced jan-feb it was pretty much spot on

otoh this is p shameful. there’s no way we are gonna use these AZs, should have given them all away a month ago

Meanwhile, the federal government announced on Wednesday that Canada would receive another 655,000 doses of AstraZeneca through the global vaccine-sharing alliance COVAX, which was designed primarily to help low- and middle-income countries get vaccines.

Many of those AstraZeneca shots are now sitting in storage as provincial leaders await expert guidance on whether the vaccines should be used for Canadians' second doses or not.

Chagla said that while Canada is fortunate to be able to choose from a variety of vaccines, that's not an option in many places around the world. As of Monday, several countries were still awaiting their first shipments of COVID-19 vaccines, the BBC reported.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-18-2021-1.6030754/canada-should-donate-astrazeneca-vaccines-or-we-ll-have-blood-on-our-hands-doctor-1.6031565

They should donate those immediately. If I'm understanding this story correctly, NACI are recommending that people who got AZ for their first dose should get P or M for their second, while no one who go P/M first should get AZ second: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-astrazeneca-pfizer-moderna-naci-1.6048152

BC under 200 cases today, first time since october

I'm an AZ guy so hoping it will be easy to get any vax for my second dose

the case for Ford as categorically the worst premier on COVID response (sorry if paywalled)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-doug-fords-pandemic-response-has-been-the-worst-of-canadas-premiers/

Other premiers made tough, controversial, choices: Mr. Legault put in-class learning above freedom of movement. Mr. Kenney arguably put businesses and livelihoods ahead of health care infrastructure. Mr. Ford, meanwhile, has staggered from one priority to the next, taking Ontarians along with him for an unpredictable, unnecessary and unpleasant ride.

Indeed, nowhere else in Canada have children been out of school so long, have seniors been hit with two equally devastating waves, have outdoor activities been so restricted for months, have personal service workers been forced into such prolonged shutdown and have retailers and other businesses faced such extended restrictions. And in exchange for these sacrifices, the province can boast … average case numbers, and above-average deaths. No premier west of Newfoundland and Labrador has really excelled in managing the COVID-19 pandemic, but for the avoidable suffering Mr. Ford’s approval-chasing and indiscipline has thrust on Ontarians, his name ought to be at the very bottom of the list.

Is the argument that Kenney was less bad bc he was decisively committed to not giving a shit?