Israel to World: "Suck It."

Arguably the only people with a traceable claim to indigeneity to eretz Yisrael might be the pre-Abrahamic Canaanites, if there are any around.

I apologize if this is stupid brain stuff but...aren't the Jewish settlers...white people from Europe? It's possible I've been listening to the wrong podcasts and/or lack context but I was under the impression the Palestinians were the only people that could be said to be indigenous to where they live. Re the "ancestral lands" framing.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Monday, May 17, 2021 12:16 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

A couple of preliminary points before my big one: (1) almost 50% of the Jewish population of Israel came from the middle east rather than Europe (plus a small % from Ethiopia); (2) technically, the "white people from Europe" can trace their lineage back to what is now Israel too (genetic tests have shown this), but you have to go back pretty far.

My bigger issue: I think indigeneity is complete bullshit as as concept. I think it has no place in modern left discourse whatsoever.

Which is to say I reject the "ancestral lands" idea as silly. But I also reject the idea that there is a nation called Palestine that has "indigenous" Palestinians who have an exclusionary right to everything that was known as Palestine under the British mandate and/or Ottoman Empire before it.

I apologize if this is stupid brain stuff but...aren't the Jewish settlers...white people from Europe? It's possible I've been listening to the wrong podcasts and/or lack context but I was under the impression the Palestinians were the only people that could be said to be indigenous to where they live. Re the "ancestral lands" framing.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Monday, May 17, 2021 1:16 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

45% of jewish Israeli identify as Askhenazi. The rest is a mix of Sephardic, Mizhari, Beta Israel (Ethiopians) and mixed decent. Jewish israelis represents 3/4 of Israel’s total population, not factoring Palestinian territories of course.

The notion that any jew can be considered ‘white people of Europe’ is also contentious.

My bigger issue: I think indigeneity is complete bullshit as as concept. I think it has no place in modern left discourse whatsoever.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, May 17, 2021 1:28 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

As a settler in Canada who works with indigenous nations I disagree but that’s another topic.

guys guys

can you let the grown-ups talk for a second

🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀

— Israel ישראל (@Israel) May 17, 2021

I think indigeneity is complete bullshit as as concept.

hmmm, you might try arguing this with Australian aboriginals, among the dozens of examples which rapidly come to mind.

They're the Elon Musk of nation-states.

and here I thought the IDF tweeting the "before/after" meme with the residential building in rubble was tasteless

even worse:

Make no mistake. Every rocket has an address. What would you do if that address was yours?

— Israel ישראל (@Israel) May 17, 2021

xp Well let me get more specific. Certainly if you're talking about a land that literally had no contact with other lands for thousands of years and suddenly has an influx of settlers, you can at least make the case for the idea of "indigeneity," but I still think it's problematic to the extent it can be used to define any kind of exclusionary land rights. Palestine, however, is not one of those places, it has been ruled by a succession of empires for thousands of years. People from all over the region and the world have been settling there throughout that time. I do not buy that there is an "indigenous group" called the Palestinians that is analogous to Australian aboriginals.

ty. that clarification defines a much narrower idea than "indigeneity is complete bullshit as as concept."

yeah, danger of dashing off political posts in between work stuff I guesss

People from all over the region and the world have been settling there throughout that time

My understanding is that those peoples are the ones that can be called indigenous Palestinians.

Why should a Bosnian Muslim family that settled in Palestine in the 1870s be considered "Palestinian" and "indigenous" if a Jewish family that came 50 years later is not?

seems like there’s a mutability to the concept of “whiteness”, depending on the mileage zionists can wring out of it on any given day

Hmm maybe it actually has something to do with the fact that Europe never actually accepted Jews as European?

whiteness had a "mutability" for Nazis too

Why should a Bosnian Muslim family that settled in Palestine in the 1870s be considered "Palestinian" and "indigenous" if a Jewish family that came 50 years later is not?

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, May 17, 2021 1:53 PM (twelve seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

I have no problem considering them both indigenous.

Then where is the historical line? Post-48 is no longer "indigenous"?

ie when cozying up to anti-Semitic but ‘pro-Israel’ evangelicals w deep pockets, Very White. when trying to score points in liberal institutions like the op ed pages of the NYT or WaPo, maybe not quite as white.

how sinister

yeah fucking around with ppl like John Hagee is pretty sinister

Then where is the historical line? Post-48 is no longer "indigenous"?

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, May 17, 2021 1:59 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

No idea and it is a good question, but to me a big part of human rights is that people should be free of the burdens of the past, and I'd include post-Hypercacher siege french jews moving to Israel and that 1870 Bosnian muslim family alike.

I think we'll need some calipers if we really want to solve this

otm

I don't really think AIPAC fundraisers are leaning in close to evangelical bigwigs and whispering "I'm white btw." Also a lot of the evangelical church isn't white. But that's getting a bit afield.

one's indigeneity to Palestine or Israel has no connection to whether one is the perpetrator or victim of human rights abuses, which seems like the bigger issue atm.

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/my-people-were-here-before-your-people/

Israel PM twitter account is utterly deranged.

The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive. The strong are respected, and alliances are made with the strong, and in the end peace is made with the strong.

— PM of Israel (@IsraeliPM) August 29, 2018

Wonder what Hamas were doing in there

🔴 Update: Israel has destroyed Gaza's only laboratory testing for the coronavirus, a senior health official said https://t.co/p40AxaDb2D

— Middle East Eye (@MiddleEastEye) May 17, 2021

with something like 40 000 + displaced people it won't only be bombs that is killing Palestinian civilians

xxxxxp Okay yeah points noted.

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/my-people-were-here-before-your-people/

― Left, Monday, May 17, 2021 6:28 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thank you for this!

Yeah that was really good and definitely hits on some of the points I was trying to make. If anything I think it could go even further in recognizing what a significant part of the Palestinian population likely does *not* trace its roots back 1300 years (e.g. immigrants from Egypt, Syria, Bosnia etc), but the overall point is right.

The "101" section of that website is one of the better and more fair-minded pro-Palestinian primers I've read, free of a lot of the hyperbole and myth you find on a lot of sites.

🔥 #PalestineOnStrike 🔥

Hearing that nearly all Palestinians are on strike.

So in awe of my ppl, my friends who've been doing the most.

UK: join one of these in solidarity, or do your own small thing ✊🏽#PalestineOnStrikeUK #SaveSheikhJarrah #فلسطين_تقاوم #GazaUnderAttack pic.twitter.com/nFVAhG3bM0

— ga-zell (@liddawiyeh) May 18, 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/may/18/a-jewish-case-for-palestinian-refugee-return

What a text

Saw a clip of Ghassan Kanafani going around and couldn’t help but think of how he closes his truly staggering 1956 short story, “Letter From Gaza” pic.twitter.com/U65e7rBsBY

— noah kulwin (@nkulw) May 11, 2021

gross

AIPAC now running ads with @IlhanMN's face next to Hamas rockets.

If this isn't blatant Islamophobia, I don't know what is. pic.twitter.com/XSvCbpKsjJ

— Jeremy Slevin (@jeremyslevin) May 18, 2021

I really hope Omar has even semi decent security

Mob Violence Against Palestinians in Israel Is Fueled by Groups on WhatsApp

Social media is a plague.

pic.twitter.com/ZS6WdQd1LE

— Gabriella Paiella (@GMPaiella) May 18, 2021

Ilhan Omar: 'At least 10 Israelis , including 2 children, have also been killed by indiscriminate Hamas rocket attacks. To be clear, this is also a war crime.'

also Ilhan Omar: 'We should be affirming the right of all people, regardless of their faith, to have self-determination and equal rights. That includes both Israelis and Palestinians because, yes, Palestinian lives matter.'

APAIC part of the plague.

The latest episode of World To Win is really good:

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/05/37-free-palestine-an-interview-with-akram-salhab

Yes it's a podcast, yes it's good. SORRY.

Disappointed in u

Rachel Kushner - https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/why-did-you-throw-stones/

that is really good, thanks

LISTEN UP

Democratic presidential administrations do seem to inspire Hamas to attack Israel. Wonder why that is. The last major wave of terrorism from Hamas came in the Obama years.

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) May 20, 2021

right wing psycho has dumb opinion, news at 11

Send Erick Erickson to live permanently in Gaza and he'd change his tune.