starting with a high bar is kind of pointless for this genre the lower your standards the more enjoyment you will get out of iti mean guitar shredding is really the highlightif you have any other sonic/lyrical requirements you will be disappointed lolbut sidebar jesus, bay area speed metal, early 80’s punk all sound like they were recorded inside aluminum garbage cans so i think you are also hampered by yr own dislike for the genre :)
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 21:38 (two years ago) link
Hair metal I would absolutely still listen to today, in descending order:
- the first three W.A.S.P. albums- the first Junkyard album- the Ratt EP and the debut album- Mötley Crue, Shout at the Devil- the first Skid Row album
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 21:46 (two years ago) link
xpost Sure! I mean, they don't need me as a fan. Still, those bay area speed metal and early 80’s punk albums may have sounded shitty, but they were shitty by necessity, not as an aesthetic trend-chasing choice.
By the way, Bon Jovi (band and man alike) come off really well in the book. Just stand up, supportive guys.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 21:49 (two years ago) link
unperson otmfirst three WASP albums are unfuckwithable, so great!!
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 21:50 (two years ago) link
the crue have some killer jams for sure and yeah first ratt album is solid
― brimstead, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 21:52 (two years ago) link
does LA Guns count? their first album rulesI think Cinderella was pretty good
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:00 (two years ago) link
I never though of Twisted Sister as related to this whole thing, maybe because they were from nowhere near LA. Are they in the book much?
― did you hear about the midnight ambler gambler? (Matt #2), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:11 (two years ago) link
Yeah, as kind of the old guard. Kiss and Ozzy, then Van Halen, then Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot and iirc Ratt and WASP as these bands that were sort of always around. Motley Crue seems to be the band that really lights a fire under the Sunset Strip. And by that I mean yes, the book includes Tommy Lee lighting his farts on fire.
LA Guns, they're another one that just sort of hovers on the periphery, for some reason.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:14 (two years ago) link
A lot of these bands seemed to swap and/or share members in the early days. Like, I know a guy from such and such band, and that band has a guy from such and such band, and then they combine and fire another guy and get a new guy from a third band, etc.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:16 (two years ago) link
Y&T were cool, they were like a real life Spinal Tap, started out in the very early 70s as Yesterday & Today then just kept evolving through 70s hard rock and into 80s pop metal
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:29 (two years ago) link
twisted sister is definitely from the ny dolls/glam/kiss/dictators type lineage
in that documentary they are playing like lou reed covers and stuff in the early days
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:30 (two years ago) link
Twisted Sister always charmingly inept, no Nuno Bettencourt shredding for those guys!
― did you hear about the midnight ambler gambler? (Matt #2), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:32 (two years ago) link
Twisted Sister had at least two ex-Dictators in their (ever-shifting) early lineups. They started performing (under other names) as early as 1972.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:35 (two years ago) link
Heh, I always rated Vito Bratta and also liked Tom Keifer as a singer.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:37 (two years ago) link
The fact that Dee Snider thought Twisted Sister would have a big hit with a cover of "Leader of the Pack" says a lot.
One of my favorite products of the genre is Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first album. VV's guitar solos are insane, they remind me a bit of Ritchie Blackmore.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:42 (two years ago) link
There's an endless series of blogposts out there somewhere where VV's drummer details how the album recording got derailed by Vinnie's apparent OCD tendencies, it's tragic.
― did you hear about the midnight ambler gambler? (Matt #2), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:44 (two years ago) link
Yeah exactly, it was a pretty small scene, Slash almost ended up in Poison. Where are Guns N Roses in the hair metal canon, below Motley Cue and above Poison or something?
― Siegbran, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:45 (two years ago) link
Where are Guns N Roses in the hair metal canon, below Motley Cue and above Poison or something?
Kind of one step to the right; I think they're seen as hair metal-adjacent, especially since they went in a much more mainstream 70s/trad hard rock direction on their second album(s).
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:53 (two years ago) link
My understanding of the prevailing wisdom is that, like Black Sabbath, they were sui generis and transcend mortal categories.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 22:55 (two years ago) link
xp
Y&T were awesome right up to (& including) “Summertime Girl” - once you have a robot on the beach in your music video, it’s time to pack your gear
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:02 (two years ago) link
iirc VV invasion ditched Vinnie and became Slaughter
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:04 (two years ago) link
I believe Vinnie Vincent guitar solos were the only time atonal music made the Billboard charts
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:07 (two years ago) link
GnR kind of ended hair metal for me, just seemed so much better, more savage and dirty compared to the other bands
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:08 (two years ago) link
Mark Slaughter sings on the 2nd VV Invasion album. The first album has an ex-Journey singer on it, though Mark Slaughter lipsyncs that guy's vocal in the "Boyz Are Gonna Rock" video.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:11 (two years ago) link
I don’t know, looking back on it now, GnR blend in even more into the hair metal scene than they did at the time when they, Skid Row and Extreme desperately tried to make a ‘tougher’ image stick.
― Siegbran, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:15 (two years ago) link
xp: like a watered-down version of how Kip Winger was in Alice Cooper's band during the Kane Roberts years.
― peace, man, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:22 (two years ago) link
Hair metal factoid: Rough Cutt's Paul Shortino played Duke Fame in This Is Spinal Tap, the rock star they bump into in the hotel lobby ("They were still booing him when we were on stage!"). Rough Cutt were abysmal btw.
― did you hear about the midnight ambler gambler? (Matt #2), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:27 (two years ago) link
Also, in hair metal continuity factoids: Two guys from King Cobra (Carmine "Vanilla Fudge" Appice's post-Ozzy 80s band) went on to start the BulletBoys. Here's King Cobra (tepidly) covering Hunger by Spectre General (aka Kick Axe):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEV13jggvY
vs the glorious original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGwEiiVyPwA
― peace, man, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:44 (two years ago) link
Among the curios of the era is this not at all stereotypically offensive deal, which I urge you to listen to for the first song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0l3VDYP-c
The back cover revealing the full hair farm says it all, and yes in the upper right corner there, that's them striking poses on stage somewhere in full costume with (presumably fake) katanas
https://img.discogs.com/cNfuITMJp43V0FbutypZN7JQAXI=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5479924-1394444257-7315.jpeg.jpg
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:47 (two years ago) link
They may have sprung forth fully-formed from my 6-year-old dreams.
― peace, man, Wednesday, 12 May 2021 23:51 (two years ago) link
based on the Nothin But A Good Time book, Tracii Guns should publish a memoirs, he is a pretty decent storyteller imo - also the fact that he’s local & intersects so many parts of the scene gives him extra credibility since so many bands were transplants
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:01 (two years ago) link
I follow him on Twitter, he's pretty good for an 80s metal singer
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:03 (two years ago) link
Yeah, he's def. a linchpin of the scene.
Y&T def. pop up here and there in the book, mostly as a band other bands open for. I mentioned Ratt as a band that been around, too, and indeed, they formed as Mickey Ratt back in 1977.
In the book GNR are definitely seen as an unintended nail in the hair metal coffin, even though those guys definitely sprung up from the same scene and were buds with the same people. It was partly because they never got glammed up, and Slash/Izzy were not weedle-weedle type shredders.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:06 (two years ago) link
in Duff’s memoirs he said the first thing they did was get rid of all the bullshit on Adler’s drumkit including second kick drum lol
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:37 (two years ago) link
That's in this book, too, ha. The opposite is when they hire Rod Morgenstein for Winger and all he wants to play is what they call "fuck-shit" drum parts, just boom, snare, boom boom, snare, and they're like, we didn't hire you prog fusion monster to do that, show off a little!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:52 (two years ago) link
My favorite line re Adler (I forget where I read it) is "He was so high, he thought he played on the album."
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:56 (two years ago) link
BTW, I was curious about the revelation that Kip Winger's number one was always Peter Gabriel, so I searched out a later example of a solo track he thought was indicative of that influence, and ... hmm, kinda!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAwOBr4BVN8
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 May 2021 02:59 (two years ago) link
Slash/Izzy were not weedle-weedle type shredders
Which hair metal guitarists do you think of as shredders? Reb Beach and Bratta were shredders but both were from NY. Vincent also Northeastern. I don't really think of the Sunset Strip guitarists that I can recall as particularly virtuosic, not more so than Slash, I don't think, but will freely admit that I haven't been listening closely in a while.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:08 (two years ago) link
srsly? George Lynch comes to mind for a start
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:13 (two years ago) link
I would say Warren Dimartini and George Lynch were the true shredders in the LA scene (Rhoads excepted as being more than just that scene)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:14 (two years ago) link
Paul Gilbert got a little mainstream with Mr. Big
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:15 (two years ago) link
Ah, OK, I was thinking about e.g. Motley Crue and Poison. I actually only know a couple of songs by Dokken and Ratt. (Didn't recall "Round & Round" being that much of a lead guitar showcase.) Was thinking of Rhoads as a different scene, yeah, but maybe he should count.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:26 (two years ago) link
now being reminded of the "Blues" Saraceno era of Poison, meh
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:27 (two years ago) link
(which, btw, Blues isn't a stage name)
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:29 (two years ago) link
I have much to learn about glam metal shredding, clearly.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:40 (two years ago) link
who were the WORST glam guitar players
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:48 (two years ago) link
Mick Mars and C.C. DeVille, and whoever was in Trixter.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:53 (two years ago) link
Guitar magazine, which was mostly written by rockist snobs, once said glam metal eventually turned into "Coke jingles with a guitar solo thrown in for street credibility" by the late 80s, and i hafta say, twas a good zing.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:54 (two years ago) link
CC deVille for sure
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 13 May 2021 03:57 (two years ago) link