Sleater-Kinney - The Center Won't Hold - August 16th

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

I think it's fair to say, setting aside whether it's been a successful transition or not, there was a fundamental change in the sound of the band between NCTL and TCWH, so I'm not terribly surprised to see the reaction. S-K was a band that people took very dearly to heart, so it doesn't seem that weird to see people expressing a strong opinion on the shift.

Well, sure. I love them too. But, you know, shit happens. I don't mind anyone thinking TCWH sucks.

I don't think it sucks, it's just not what I was looking for in a S-K album and I've not returned to it nearly as much as I have the rest of their catalog.

I think the wild reactions also come down to the remnants of the "sell out" bullshit surrounding any tangentially "punk" band from the '90s.

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

^^In general it's wise to avoid FB comments, but I got curious and it seems like every other post is "Bring Back Janet" with the occasional side dish of "St. Vincent Ruined S-K", while another guy (always a guy, speaking of the new single) saying that Janet was fired so they could make "Taylor Swift Music".

it was a relatively ugly split especially with janet's side of the story not making carrie & corin seem very sympathetic at all, so i can understand why people were particularly upset, especially with janet being so beloved & crucial to the band

if they'd just amicably split because corin & carrie wanted to go in one direction & janet wanted to go in another, or at least smoothed over the interpersonal conflicts much more in their public statements, then people wouldn't have had quite as strong of a reaction (though i'm sure everyone would still be sad to see janet go)

of course the album that prompted the split being a change in direction that wasn't that well received by the fanbase didn't help at all either

this isn't bad, and who knows what the real story is, it's just for me personally, rock bands are basically about the dynamics of how certain people play together, that musical chemistry otherwise honestly why are you even listening to rock music?

and without janet, it's just a different dynamic. i'm sure that corin and carrie will write some good catchy tunes but it's not particularly interesting to me i'd rather just listen to something else

also with the selling out bullshit, honestly, I get why they would do this. This doesn't really feel like Sleater-Kinney to be but so what, they built the band and frankly they could both right the identical songs, identical productions, everything and if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best.

so why not? it doesn't diminish the original run of s/t through the woods

Oh, to be clear, I'm not saying they "sold out". It's been an undercurrent of a lot of the bullshit "St. Vincent ruined the band" stuff though , unfortunately.

I hold nothing against the evolution of the band and I don't blame them for wanting to shake things up, I just wish I liked the new direction as much as I liked the older stuff. I mean, The Woods was a pretty big curveball for them at the time, I still adore that one.

I still find the last album incredibly moving and love every song, nothing has really changed that. New song's pretty good.

I love TCWH -- easily my favorite S-K, up there with One Beat. And it sounds/feels like S-K; my initial impression of the opening song was that it felt forced, but I don't hear it that way anymore, and Janet's presence is essential to what makes TCWH great.

The new song feels tentative, though. It also reminds me a lot of this (which is not why I think it feels tentative, tbc):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaEZ8k7K44o

The level of personal identification fans had with S-K makes the response unsurprising to me. Add in that they were so much stronger together than separately (except for Janet, ironically - Wild Flag and the Corin Tucker Band were not great, Quasi rules) for a topper.

The St. Vincent storyline was unfair to her and the band, the last album being written remotely and traded back and forth via Logic Pro files seemed like a much bigger issue.

the 'st vincent ruined the band' thing seemed to be a combination of people unhappy with the different musical direction and looking for someone to blame for the interpersonal conflict, and of course st vincent being carrie's ex fuelled that narrative further in line with classic misogynistic rock narratives

The irony of the wrongheaded "St. Vincent ruined them!" take is that it was Janet's idea to bring in St. Vincent.

Re: Change Display Name

Dave Abbruzzese’s firing from Pearl Jam comes to mind, as it really showed the band’s vindictive and petty nature, and it left a bitter taste for many fans. His crime? Probably doing too many of the publicity rounds that Epic was asking them to undertake

He bought a flashy new car that Vedder didn't like.

Bill Berry & REM?

Berry/R.E.M. is interesting, as the band

1. Never formally found a replacement

2. Berry became a huge cheerleader of the group’s efforts without him

I got the sense that decision was more driven by Berry? just not wanting the grind anymore, or at least that is my memory

Yes, Berry was deeply unhappy with touring and the responsibilities of being in a major label’s flagship band, and he realized he never needed to work again

I was thinking more like in fan reaction ("It hasn't been the same since Bill left maaaan..."), and how it gave lie to the whole "If one of us stops, we all stop" ethos that REM had prior to his exit.

Ultimately not the best example.

He'd had a near-death experience (aneurysm) on their last (?) tour, and wanted to live on a farm. iirc, he made sure to wait until whatever big album-tour cycle was over, so as not to leave them scrambling for a replacement. But yeah, it was Berry's decision, though he did say, "If you break up because I'm leaving, then I won't leave."

GnR fans mostly prefer Steven Adler to Matt Sorum these days, but I don't remember there being a big backlash when Steven was kicked out.

Feel like Queens of the Stone Age fans have some passionate opinions about their drummer rotation as well. "When are they gonna bring Dave back, maaaaan?" But no one's stopped buying their albums because of it.

lol xp to c. grisso on the "maaaaan"

no qotsa fan in their right mind would sub grohl for jon theodore

I really never thought of Grohl as part of the band

with Queens I feel like pre and post Nick Oliveri is a thing

Oh yeah, the Nick opinions are fiercer.

xp: agreed, but...

Tracklist:

1. Path of Wellness
2. High In The Grass
3. Worry With You
4. Method
5. Shadow Town
6. Favorite Neighbor
7. Tomorrow's Grave
8. No Knives
9. Complex Female Characters
10. Down The Line
11. Bring Mercy

Lots of bands have of course lost and gained members, drummers included. I think the vibe I get from this sort of situation is that S-K as Carrie, Corin & Janet felt like a team, a unit, and then they collectively tossed in the towel and took a final bow as S-K together. Granted, no bands ever seem to break up anymore, but that aside, the reunion made the most impact as a unit as well, like the return of your favorite team. When Janet left it felt ... less than amicable. Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be. A bit like when Dave Lombardo left or was kicked out of Slayer at various points. When someone so seemingly key is made to look replaceable or expendable, it kind of pokes a hole in the whole illusion of invincible indivisibility, us against the world. Now, does it matter? Probably not, but it does change the personality (literally and figuratively) of the band a bit.

Another good example might be Cheap Trick without Bun E.. Like, Black Sabbath, they have hated each other for years, so firing Bill Ward was very much in cynical character. But Cheap Trick also felt like a team, and Bun E. was pushed out under less than honorable circumstances. Which may explain why he remains (post litigation) a shareholder in Cheap Trick, Inc., and iirc gets paid even as the band plays without him.

Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be.

and of course according to janet that was the exact reason for the split - the other two weren't interested in having her be a creative equal anymore

https://img.discogs.com/rrNQTV3KaDzDmeIrm1k-SWNBGNA=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-7857718-1450289587-1336.jpeg.jpg

The Woods remains fantastic.

if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best

I was curious, so I checked out Corin's solo page on Spotify, and--while I know those two albums were a long time ago and even then they weren't super well-promoted or toured behind--I was shocked that her current monthly listeners count is 404. As in 4 over 400.

For comparison, Wild Flag have 5,783.

And Sleater-Kinney have 319,647.

wow yeah that's even lower than I thought

that first Wild Flag record rules

Curated Playlist of Inspirations for the new one:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1YdiSxLyGMa6z2EEVMTqxm?si=atrgu3HzQL6wq4_FRi8qog

Genesis! Rufus! Armatrading!

not much to glean from that except that the new alb will prob emphasize keyboards of some kind

I was curious, so I checked out Corin's solo page on Spotify, and--while I know those two albums were a long time ago and even then they weren't super well-promoted or toured behind--I was shocked that her current monthly listeners count is 404. As in 4 over 400.

For comparison, Wild Flag have 5,783.

Heavens to Betsy has 18,392 monthly listeners though.

New Interview: https://www.vulture.com/article/interview-sleater-kinney-carrie-brownstein-corin-tucker-path-of-wellness.html

Vulture: In 2019, Janet Weiss suggested that she had been shut out of decision-making processes in the band and that was why she left. I’m curious how you feel about that characterization.

CB: I mean, anyone who thinks there aren’t multiple perspectives and sides to this is either being willfully ignorant or perhaps lacks their own real-life experience. To be honest, I’m not interested in continuing to talk about something that really seems to revel in female cattiness and conjecture and confirmation bias.

Carrie is also going to direct a Heart biopic.

sounds like no love lost between them and Janet, that's unfortunate

Heavens to Betsy has 18,392 monthly listeners though.

That's impressive! I do wonder how much of that comes from algorithms bumping tracks as 'related' programming after S-K/Bikini Kill/etc. albums.

FWIW, Filthy Friends currently have 804 monthly listeners. One one hand I get it because I only know about their second album because I get emails from Kill Rock Stars, but otoh I thought REM stans would be more supportive.

No Spotify in senior living facilities.

It's The End of The World As We Know It (And Get Off My Lawn!)

New Corin Song & Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkPJtv32WtA

very nice

yeah, love that

Ooh this is good

Sounds kinda like ... Pavement?

^^I can say for a fact that whenever I listen to either new single on Spotify, the subsequent 'song radio' always plays Pavement and Wire and Hole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O11TZvnHtmg

another good one, it already seems like i'll enjoy this album a lot more than the last two