Sleater-Kinney - The Center Won't Hold - August 16th

yep

chorus is v wild flag to me which... not my fave personally but i will check out this record regardless

This is a good call, thought the same thing.

I know it's not fair of me, especially considering Janet wasn't even a founding member, but I feel like I'd be more charitable if this was released under a different project name. It's fine, it just doesn't feel like Sleater-Kinney to me. And, yes, I understand this is more my hang-up, but it's true.

Just not feeling Carrie-led songs from the last album or this, even more than missing Janet (I didn't care for Wild Flag either).

It's...fine. It just sounds kinda average. No Weiss, no dice.

I liked the last 2 records but NCTL is more of a full band record, where Center feels more of a Carrie/St Vincent thing with a little Corin in there. It doesn’t feel like SK to me unless there is a lot of Corin/Carrie interplay. Interesting to see how the (full) departure of Janet changes things.

Serious question, is this the most people have ever cared about a drummer leaving a band/being fired/replaced?

add "dying" and you get Bonham and Moon

this song is ok. Center was meh. I might go to this tour though, I haven't seen Wilco since YHF and I heard enough good things about the Janet-less SK tour that I regretted not going.

the nature of the departure was extra jarring because it seemed to fly in the face of their stated politics to some extent xps

it sounded like it was basically 'creative differences' when it came down to it, but played out in about the worst possible way

this song is ok. Center was meh. I might go to this tour though, I haven't seen Wilco since YHF and I heard enough good things about the Janet-less SK tour that I regretted not going.

― akm, Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:37 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

wilco has quietly turned into one of the great live bands over the past decade or so

A pleasant surprise, in that I was listening to TCWH the other week, thinking then it felt like a final chapter.

But then came the announcement email this morning, and I like this and am interested in hearing more.

Is Angie Boylan still drumming with them and just getting the Daryl Jones treatment?

it's Eric Carr I think

I'm listening to TCWH now and it's a total jam, love it.

XP Anton Figg!

I know it's not fair of me, especially considering Janet wasn't even a founding member

No, but she shaped and defined their sound and approach as much as (or arguably more than) Carrie and Corin. I mean, Neil Peart wasn't a founding member of Rush.

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

I think it's fair to say, setting aside whether it's been a successful transition or not, there was a fundamental change in the sound of the band between NCTL and TCWH, so I'm not terribly surprised to see the reaction. S-K was a band that people took very dearly to heart, so it doesn't seem that weird to see people expressing a strong opinion on the shift.

Well, sure. I love them too. But, you know, shit happens. I don't mind anyone thinking TCWH sucks.

I don't think it sucks, it's just not what I was looking for in a S-K album and I've not returned to it nearly as much as I have the rest of their catalog.

I think the wild reactions also come down to the remnants of the "sell out" bullshit surrounding any tangentially "punk" band from the '90s.

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

^^In general it's wise to avoid FB comments, but I got curious and it seems like every other post is "Bring Back Janet" with the occasional side dish of "St. Vincent Ruined S-K", while another guy (always a guy, speaking of the new single) saying that Janet was fired so they could make "Taylor Swift Music".

it was a relatively ugly split especially with janet's side of the story not making carrie & corin seem very sympathetic at all, so i can understand why people were particularly upset, especially with janet being so beloved & crucial to the band

if they'd just amicably split because corin & carrie wanted to go in one direction & janet wanted to go in another, or at least smoothed over the interpersonal conflicts much more in their public statements, then people wouldn't have had quite as strong of a reaction (though i'm sure everyone would still be sad to see janet go)

of course the album that prompted the split being a change in direction that wasn't that well received by the fanbase didn't help at all either

this isn't bad, and who knows what the real story is, it's just for me personally, rock bands are basically about the dynamics of how certain people play together, that musical chemistry otherwise honestly why are you even listening to rock music?

and without janet, it's just a different dynamic. i'm sure that corin and carrie will write some good catchy tunes but it's not particularly interesting to me i'd rather just listen to something else

also with the selling out bullshit, honestly, I get why they would do this. This doesn't really feel like Sleater-Kinney to be but so what, they built the band and frankly they could both right the identical songs, identical productions, everything and if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best.

so why not? it doesn't diminish the original run of s/t through the woods

Oh, to be clear, I'm not saying they "sold out". It's been an undercurrent of a lot of the bullshit "St. Vincent ruined the band" stuff though , unfortunately.

I hold nothing against the evolution of the band and I don't blame them for wanting to shake things up, I just wish I liked the new direction as much as I liked the older stuff. I mean, The Woods was a pretty big curveball for them at the time, I still adore that one.

I still find the last album incredibly moving and love every song, nothing has really changed that. New song's pretty good.

I love TCWH -- easily my favorite S-K, up there with One Beat. And it sounds/feels like S-K; my initial impression of the opening song was that it felt forced, but I don't hear it that way anymore, and Janet's presence is essential to what makes TCWH great.

The new song feels tentative, though. It also reminds me a lot of this (which is not why I think it feels tentative, tbc):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaEZ8k7K44o

The level of personal identification fans had with S-K makes the response unsurprising to me. Add in that they were so much stronger together than separately (except for Janet, ironically - Wild Flag and the Corin Tucker Band were not great, Quasi rules) for a topper.

The St. Vincent storyline was unfair to her and the band, the last album being written remotely and traded back and forth via Logic Pro files seemed like a much bigger issue.

the 'st vincent ruined the band' thing seemed to be a combination of people unhappy with the different musical direction and looking for someone to blame for the interpersonal conflict, and of course st vincent being carrie's ex fuelled that narrative further in line with classic misogynistic rock narratives

The irony of the wrongheaded "St. Vincent ruined them!" take is that it was Janet's idea to bring in St. Vincent.

Re: Change Display Name

Dave Abbruzzese’s firing from Pearl Jam comes to mind, as it really showed the band’s vindictive and petty nature, and it left a bitter taste for many fans. His crime? Probably doing too many of the publicity rounds that Epic was asking them to undertake

He bought a flashy new car that Vedder didn't like.

Bill Berry & REM?

Berry/R.E.M. is interesting, as the band

1. Never formally found a replacement

2. Berry became a huge cheerleader of the group’s efforts without him

I got the sense that decision was more driven by Berry? just not wanting the grind anymore, or at least that is my memory

Yes, Berry was deeply unhappy with touring and the responsibilities of being in a major label’s flagship band, and he realized he never needed to work again

I was thinking more like in fan reaction ("It hasn't been the same since Bill left maaaan..."), and how it gave lie to the whole "If one of us stops, we all stop" ethos that REM had prior to his exit.

Ultimately not the best example.

He'd had a near-death experience (aneurysm) on their last (?) tour, and wanted to live on a farm. iirc, he made sure to wait until whatever big album-tour cycle was over, so as not to leave them scrambling for a replacement. But yeah, it was Berry's decision, though he did say, "If you break up because I'm leaving, then I won't leave."

GnR fans mostly prefer Steven Adler to Matt Sorum these days, but I don't remember there being a big backlash when Steven was kicked out.

Feel like Queens of the Stone Age fans have some passionate opinions about their drummer rotation as well. "When are they gonna bring Dave back, maaaaan?" But no one's stopped buying their albums because of it.

lol xp to c. grisso on the "maaaaan"

no qotsa fan in their right mind would sub grohl for jon theodore

I really never thought of Grohl as part of the band

with Queens I feel like pre and post Nick Oliveri is a thing

Oh yeah, the Nick opinions are fiercer.

xp: agreed, but...

Tracklist:

1. Path of Wellness
2. High In The Grass
3. Worry With You
4. Method
5. Shadow Town
6. Favorite Neighbor
7. Tomorrow's Grave
8. No Knives
9. Complex Female Characters
10. Down The Line
11. Bring Mercy

Lots of bands have of course lost and gained members, drummers included. I think the vibe I get from this sort of situation is that S-K as Carrie, Corin & Janet felt like a team, a unit, and then they collectively tossed in the towel and took a final bow as S-K together. Granted, no bands ever seem to break up anymore, but that aside, the reunion made the most impact as a unit as well, like the return of your favorite team. When Janet left it felt ... less than amicable. Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be. A bit like when Dave Lombardo left or was kicked out of Slayer at various points. When someone so seemingly key is made to look replaceable or expendable, it kind of pokes a hole in the whole illusion of invincible indivisibility, us against the world. Now, does it matter? Probably not, but it does change the personality (literally and figuratively) of the band a bit.

Another good example might be Cheap Trick without Bun E.. Like, Black Sabbath, they have hated each other for years, so firing Bill Ward was very much in cynical character. But Cheap Trick also felt like a team, and Bun E. was pushed out under less than honorable circumstances. Which may explain why he remains (post litigation) a shareholder in Cheap Trick, Inc., and iirc gets paid even as the band plays without him.

Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be.

and of course according to janet that was the exact reason for the split - the other two weren't interested in having her be a creative equal anymore

https://img.discogs.com/rrNQTV3KaDzDmeIrm1k-SWNBGNA=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-7857718-1450289587-1336.jpeg.jpg

The Woods remains fantastic.

if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best

I was curious, so I checked out Corin's solo page on Spotify, and--while I know those two albums were a long time ago and even then they weren't super well-promoted or toured behind--I was shocked that her current monthly listeners count is 404. As in 4 over 400.

For comparison, Wild Flag have 5,783.

And Sleater-Kinney have 319,647.