should i give the grateful dead a chance?

i thought they were a metal band for many years before actually hearing them when I was a kid

Tender jerry (must have been the roses, Stella blue) is my least favorite jerry

Same here re image & iconography vs the music.


I think the first Dead I ever actually heard was courtesy of a friend’s older brothers mix tape w Fire and maybe Uncle John’s Band. good intro, but not at all what I was expecting

HI DERE. Really enjoying reading y’all’s posts about this band, but just don’t have the energy today to make another one of my periodic attempts to listen to them.

I really really love what they & Lowell did with “Stagger Lee”. I wish Shakedown had been a stronger set of songs (“Fire” & title track notwithstanding obv) because they were really approaching something interesting there

god i do love how wimpy and spidery their music is though, so glad it isn't endless overdrive and blues scales and psychedelic lyrics

Are there a subspecies of dead fans who don't really like China/Rider or Scarlet/Fire? I don't really, does that make me not a true head?

I have never given a damn for Scarlet Fire. I could take or leave China Cat but it makes a great launching pad for I Know You Rider, which absolutely needs a launching pad to get off on the right foot.

Rider is alright. Probably my favorite of those four. I like the studio version of Fire on the Mountain a lot though.

There's definitely something "special" about the sound of that Cornell 77 Scarlet/Fire, but it's not exactly my thing, and I hate it when the piano starts grinding those major triads over and over again.

I love China Cat Sunflower.

Not saying you're not a dead fan if you don't like one of those transitions, but if you don't like either, I'm gonna have to check your card.

Scarlet/Fire can be by-the-book. So can China/Rider. But when the latter is good, it sums up almost everything good about the dead in one neat and tidy package.

As basic a choice it may be, the Europe ’72 China/Rider turned me onto the Dead. I’d never been one for rootsy/Americana music but the Dead kept popping up as a reference in my Sixties reading—I of course was familiar with who they were and their uncool rep, but had never heard them. Listening to “Rider" in particular was like scratching an itch I didn’t know I had. Went on discogs and immediately bought the LP, and started getting into hippie country. As silly as it sounds to say, the guitar solos in “Rider" sounded so thrilling and free. And those harmonies! (Though I was a little disappointed to learn they were just overdubs…)

XP yeah, I forgot the show but it was a China/Rider performance that finally had me turn the corner on getting into the Dead.

Although, I guess my definition of that means skipping over 90% of the Weir/Pigpen tracks

The China/Rider that opens Dick's Picks 12 (1974 Providence/Boston) was one of the first GD song(s) that grabbed me – typifies that jazzier loose-but-tight sound that you hear in the best 73/74 shows where everyone is noodling at the same time w/o sounding like a mess. Also nice delivery of the "Wish I was a headlight ..." part, which is really all I'm looking for in Riders.

Yeah actually the Europe 72 China/Rider is pretty good, as are a few in 73. China Cat's feel is tricky, it can get really clunky and awkward when the touch isn't light enough. The lyrics are also on the dippier end of hippy dippy and the vocal melody is awkward. But sometimes they nail it and it sounds really good.

Guy who looks like Garcia era bob weir carrying a huge bag of laundry down the street, what’s on your iPod

He’s not gonna spend one more Saturday night with dirty jorts.

Wake up to find out thatcha fly’s been open all day

Aahh the Truckin’ on Pacific Northwest ‘73/‘74 is so great! It starts like a great songy song and then morphs into this freaky and psychedelic jammy jamm Jammm. Haven’t heard this a version of Truckin’ that rips so hard

Yeah, that's a great one. That entire PNW box is a treasure trove and I'm glad I splurged on it.

As a very casual and selective Dead listener, it's really interesting to see your various takes on the band, what got you into them, and what you dislike, since most of my friends are in the "nah man, they suck" camp. And there are many times I think they're right.

https://preview.redd.it/v40m7ctx5l171.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f85fa9b66d4c88403a54c98c43a3f05091b9bf52

^^ kinda agree with that poster but I'd narrow the "great years" to 89-90. and of course the first half of the 70s.

I made an attempt with 1990 once. Once. I'd heard good things about the Dozin' at the Knick set, and found a used copy. It started out ok, and they actually rocked out a little harder than I expected in spots. But the "Space" was interminable. It sounded like someone in a music store checking out all the presets on a DX7. "Oh, cool, this one sounds like lasers! Pew pew! That is so cool! Pew pew pew!" There is no worse Dead than MIDI Dead. 1988 is my cutoff (and even there, some dingus put a harmonizer on Bob's vocals, because his vocals weren't quite annoying enough).

Welp, I've pasted from early East Coast Dead Adopter xgau's stash upthread---and here he is re this era:
Crimson White & Indigo [Rhino, 2010]
Old and on their way, they jam in the Fourth on July 7, 1989, with a miraculously or pharmaceutically pepped-up Jerry launching a searing "Iko Iko"-"Little Red Rooster"-"Ramble On Rose"-"Memphis Blues Again" sequence before receding into grotty but engaged desuetude ("Iko Iko," "Knockin' On Heaven's Door") ***
He likes it better than Cornell '77 and some others often preferred to the late shows.

See, Dozin' was one of my gateways. (But I've never heard the whole thing, just the "Playin'/Uncle John/Terrapin" segment.) It's all about segments for me; there are very shows (maybe none?) I can listen to all the way through. Even a lot of individual songs go on too long. But yeah, 1990 is probably my comfort zone. xp

very few shows...

Yeah Hundred Year Hall, Dozin' and the first couple of Dick's Picks were when I really started getting into and collecting the Dead.

I've never heard the whole thing either, but he liked that one even better!

Dozin' at the Knick [Arista, 1996]
...after several concert tapes failed to get over I decided I had more pressing business than finding the good nights that were probably still there. Now, finally, after several half stabs (Hundred Year Hall, Fallout From the Phil Zone), comes this four-hour three-CD document from historic Albany, New York. Solid new Bob Weir opener, coupla excellent! Bob Dylan covers, Brent Mydland more Rod McKernan than Page McConnell, creaky and transcendent "Black Peter," "Walkin' Blues" and "Jack-a-Roe," the nightly "Drums" and "Space" excursions scenic enough. And above all, that mesh of the tight and the shambolic that on their best nights rendered their music responsive and interactive in a way marshmallow-heads will never understand and therefore never hear. A-

(I remember liking Fallout From The Phil Zone, but haven't heard it in a long time.)

Without A Net rules!!!

just hit me that the Jack Straw on cornell '77 is great

Listening to 2/15/73 Dane County Coliseum right now, a '73 show that flies under the radar slightly, since it's not a Betty Board and not in the band's vaults. Charlie Miller uploaded a great sounding version last year (start with track 3, first two songs are really rough soundchecks fyi).

https://archive.org/details/gd1973-02-15.134029.sbd.menke-lee-smith.flac16

Flipped over to GD Radio in the car earlier, and a caught a little of Weir singing "Man Smart (Woman Smarter)"... probably not a side of the Dead that I would steer a noobie toward "giving a chance," but it's there.

lol, def not a selling point of latter day Dead, if i'm in the mood for a late run show i haven't heard, the presence of that song on a setlist is often reason enough to pick a different one

It is curious that they felt compelled to add both that and Aiko Aiko into the repertoire

Quality Weir banter, going into the third set (7/18/72):

“What-what-what-what? …Like the man said, you all are gonna hafta e-NUN-CEE-ate… or at least speak all together.
…We don’t play that tune anymore, man. It done faded away.
Anyway, if y’all would shut up for a few minutes, we can tune our instruments faster. Thank you!”

Just some outsider thoughts, I'm feeling like my Dead appreciation has turned a slight corner these days.

I've always been aware of and liked them. I bought (and enjoyed) Live/Dead, AotS, Aox, AB, WmD maybe 25 years ago, but then kinda hit a wall with the live material, occasionally dipping my toe with the odd CD but never quite understanding what the fuss and scholarship was founded upon.

So I read some books and enjoyed the documentaries, you can't argue that they're not a fascinating cultural phenomenon if nothing else.

I've gone through various stages of Dead acknowledgement, from 'this is the great psychedelic ziggurat of American music? Really? It's a frail sounding C&W band, no?' to 'why are they *all* noodling at the same time, can't Phil at least weigh anchor?'

I know about the Phil Zone and have listened to a bunch of 'Space', even some Seastones and the Greyfolded CD, so I get the exploratory side, but everything after their move towards Americana didn't hold as much pull as the earlier, more psychedelic studio and live material.

But I still keep coming back to it and recently started reading the book on Cornell '77, it's not an amazing book but it was super interesting to read a book about a concert, not even a 33 1/3 format book about a whole record, but a *concert* as some sort of touchstone.

So reading the book and listening at the same time I kinda feel more at home with the post '70 material, I'm still having trouble with that envelope-follower guitar sound and the more disco elements, 'Dancing...' is frightful but I am emboldened to try more 70s live stuff, I'm going to go through my CDs/archive.org and loop back to '72 and '74 and see where that gets me.

And, I'm going to this thread a read too.

I'm still having trouble with that envelope-follower guitar sound and the more disco elements, 'Dancing...' is frightful

I only hate the envelope filter when it’s played by any guitarist other than Garcia or Townshend. Jerry uses it in such a way that it’s teetering on the edge of absurdity, and never quite falls over.

When I looked at the tracklist of Cornell before listening, I thought, “‘Dancing In The Street’? That can’t be good. No one’s managed even a middling cover of that.” While the Dead’s isn’t great, it’s far better than I’d expected, largely due to the disco feel/elements. The versions they did in the late ‘60s, though, are abominable.

You're probably aware if you're this far into GD, but you'll find a ton of psychedelic-sounding stuff, similar to pre-1970, in the big jam songs in 73-74 (Dark Star, Playing in the Band, and random long jams that pop up) even if most of is on the jazzier side, and you'll probably hear the Disco Dead sound in most of the stuff from 77-80, if you're trying to avoid the up-tempo, groovier bass stuff.

Thank you! I'm happy for any tips.

Not sure if anyone has ever posted it, but if you've ever found yourself bummed you couldn't download a GD SBD from archive.org and you use Chrome, the Grateful Grabber extension works really well.

“Everything stretched out... it expanded!”
DEAD FREAKS UNITE! 1971 was a momentous year for the GRATEFUL DEAD – involving landmark shows, bizarre ESP experiments, French Acid Tests, hypnosis, new faces and emotional farewells. BOB WEIR, BILL KREUTZMANN and other eyewitnesses share tales from this journey with Rob Hughes: “We were just coming alive.”
Our friends across the pond at Uncut hop in the way-back machine with Bobby, Billy, and more to explore early 70s Dead. READ THE EXCERPT https://www.dead.net/features/general-news-news/uncut-magazine-grateful-dead-road-trips-sneak-preview?eml=2021June17/5370880/6131962&etsubid=33554028
Also, The Jolly Ol' Grateful Deadcast, Over There---The Grateful Dead In England, and much more (incl. Hunter playlist)linked in this Bulletin: http://view.email.dead.net/?qs=6756b1b9c0987b5ea85777a074278ac13bbc2b46dc012850853f1c1589450246b97ba534a1b481ed388bfe654bc25728c25852b0fd355d907d342c0022d49a25298f5632dd0846c61b1a1c3c515880cf

For my birthday – a not-insignificant milestone – my mom & sister sent me a Ripple Junction Grateful Dead Adult Unisex Steal Your Face Vintage Light Weight 100% Cotton Crew T-Shirt Xl White.

(Something "Touch of Grey"–related may have been more appropriate, but I'll take it)

Got to say Billy Strings sounds pretty good with Billy & the Kids.

Seriously. I’d see them over Dead and Co

Who knew that my gateway to bluegrass would be found in my search for post-Dead jam bands who didn't leave me cold. I've much love for the extended explorations of Greensky Bluegrass and Yonder Mountain but yeah, Billy Strings has recently become my first choice for this kinda music.

Got to say Billy Strings sounds pretty good with Billy & the Kids.

Thanks for the tip! I'm digging these Youtube clips of the Red Rocks shows from earlier this week.

Yeah, I'd love to see Billy Strings playing with Billy & the Kids in person someday. I'm surprised by how rapidly that kid took off, he's immensely talented but it always seems like the real bluegrass players are held at an arm's length, even within the jam band scene. They get love, but never quite breakthrough to the next level.

Speaking of meteoric rises and post-Dead jam bands, I've started checking out some Goose after the last few years of insane hype by phans and heads on Twitter. I'm not sold yet and they too often sound like a mish-mash of other jam bands (not to mention the guitarist's tone is way to close to Trey's at times), but I have been struck by a few of their jams - there was a great jam that started with Radiohead's "Weird Fishes" before segueing into their own "Wysteria Lane" (from 6/11/21) that worked for me.

Everyone in that Billy & the Kids lineup seems pretty talented.