I believe he is posting as xyzzz?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 8 May 2021 13:15 (two years ago) link
I never really knew what george was talking about, or why Sonic Youth came up on a Schoenberg thread, but if the point was that Thurston Moore is a pseud because he didn't play Wuorinen and Babbitt, that is definitely an important opinion that needs to be heard.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 8 May 2021 13:25 (two years ago) link
Schoenberg one of the all-time greatest, though.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 8 May 2021 13:26 (two years ago) link
serialism is certainly fortunate
Not sure what I meant by this. Maybe something like 'in retrospect, serialism writ large has yielded more interesting results than its integral variant (à la Boulez, et al.)'? In which case, I haven't really changed my mind on that front. (Tbf I was considerably more ESL-ish in my teens.)
I still think Berg > Webern > Schoenberg, but it's much closer now.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 8 May 2021 13:36 (two years ago) link
Old ILX was wild.Personally offended and sickened that these wretched poseurs sonic toof didn’t cover philomel in their supposedly definitive history of 20th Century music. PS Rap sux.
― Van Halen dot Senate dot flashlight (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 8 May 2021 15:38 (two years ago) link
lapsed indie kids protest too much
schoenberg > berg > webern for me. berg's oeuvre probably more consistently excellent but he didn't write pierrot lunaire or a survivor form warsaw and as great as his operas are i prefer moses und aron. webern's whole miniature thing gets on my nerves somehow though i admit the 2nd movement of the piano variations slaps hard
― Left, Saturday, 8 May 2021 17:14 (two years ago) link
Moses and Aron needs way more love. Surprised that the Met did it once.
― Van Halen dot Senate dot flashlight (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 8 May 2021 18:47 (two years ago) link
too late to ask george what he meant now unfortunately
didn't he ramble
― unknown or illegal user (doo rag), Saturday, 8 May 2021 22:40 (two years ago) link
i think some connection to that album of 20th cent composers stuff they did, i dunno
― unknown or illegal user (doo rag), Saturday, 8 May 2021 22:48 (two years ago) link
You know what's really good, though, is the third string quartet.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 8 May 2021 22:53 (two years ago) link
been listening schoenberg as pop
I don’t know from 12 tone or theory in the slightest but this guy has so many damn tunes its incredible, in every phase of his career
piano suite and serenade for strings I’ve seen dismissed as dry academic experiments but they’re both hooky as hell, and potentially danceable
3rd quartet grabbed me first with that riff but all the others are great too, no 2 especially moving me atm. string trio is pretty intense even by his standards though i think that’s sort of the point (probably the intense emotionality of his work bothers some people more than the “atonality” or whatever?)
this all comes from an utterly superficial overview of his music instead of the kind of hardcore intellectual investment you’re supposed to need to appreciate him at all. which I’m sure would be very rewarding in many ways. but I feel like I’ve been lied to about this by the classical gatekeepers. no one told me about the tunes man
― Left, Friday, 4 June 2021 20:34 (two years ago) link
^^^ gets it.
― pomenitul, Friday, 4 June 2021 20:39 (two years ago) link
No, you should not need heavy intellectual investment to appreciate his work imo - he himself had very little formal training and was mostly self-taught. He was an Expressionist and a Romantic. (Analysis can certainly help but it is not and should not be the only way his work can be approached.)
To Kandinsky, he wrote (from Ross, The Rest Is Noise):
Art belongs to the unconscious! One must express oneself! Express oneself directly! Not one’s taste, or one’s upbringing, or one’s intelligence, knowledge or skill.
To Busoni (from Auner, Music of the 20th and 21st Centuries):
It is impossible for a person to have only one sensation at a time. One has thousands simultaneously. And these thousands can no more readily be added together than an apple and a pear. They go their own ways. And this variegation, this multifariousness, this illogicality which our senses demonstrate, the illogicality presented by their interactions, set forth by some mounting rush of blood, by some reactions of the senses orthe nerves, this I should like to have in my music.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 5 June 2021 00:50 (two years ago) link
Don't get me wrong, he (despite his lack of formal training) became a famous theorist and teacher (and then professor) as well and there is a lot going on formally - but he would have definitely been happy with people appreciating his music in a visceral, immediate way.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 5 June 2021 01:00 (two years ago) link