Thread of Wonder, the next 5000 posts: science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction 2021 and beyond

I hate hate hate the -punk construction, yes even cyberpunk and steampunk. Basically if you haven't been in the pit at Agnostic Front or, er, The Exploited don't call yourself punk, whippersnappers. Hopepunk is the worst yet, although noblepunk would beat it if anyone had been mad enough to moniker the 'genre' thus.

Yes Hopepunk is particularly gross.

If you want racial stereotyping I can(not) recommend Hellspark by Janet Kagan. Not that she stereotypes any existing races or cultures, but in her humanoid diaspora every planet confirms to extremely rigid and laboured stereotypes (one lot carry knives which they obsessively polish while thinking; one lot shake bangles to make a point; one lot approach from the right to appear submissive, obviously another lot approach from the right to appear dominant!) and it's only one interplanetary traveller who helps them see that hey man underneath we're all the same!

I'll accept cyberpunk and splatterpunk but I feel that if there is no punk aesthetic at all, then I'd rather call it something else. So steampunk is steamtech to me. Dieselpunk is dieseltech, solarpunk is solar SF, mannerpunk is fantasy-of-manners, hopepunk is uuuhhhh, I dunno.

Somebody mocking it called it Copepunk.

Adding punk to everything makes the genre naming so boring too. I also find it dumb in music when someone highly individual and/or untutored like Captain Beefheart gets called punk, I don't think it makes a lot of sense.

Jess Nevins - Horror Fiction In The 20th Century

This book is a huge undertaking and it was impossible this was going to please everyone. It covers more areas of horror fiction than most surveys care to or even would consider looking at, but it's under 300 pages and Nevins is just here by himself. In addition to the expected anglosphere writers and the parts cut and paste from Horror Needs No Passport (I did wonder if there were some new entries in these parts, because there were profiles I didn't remember), there's sections on horror for children and young adults, horror written by (and largely for?) African Americans, Latinx, Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Gays and Lesbians that mostly never had much of an audience outside their own communities.

I had some of the same problems with this as I did with Horror Needs No Passport (profiles on writers often blur together through similarities, authors who write primarily to scare seem to be considered less worthy) but this is often a more fun read.
The parts I enjoyed the most are when Nevins makes arguments and gets opinionated. I have never heard so much about the various trends going on in the ghost story and pulp eras and the claim that women ghost story authors made advancements that unfortunately weren't built on for a long time. There's some authors profiled who seem to have been a big deal in their time who I don't recall hearing about (Harriet Prescott Spofford and John Burke). I hadn't ever heard that James Herbert, Bentley Little and Benchley's Jaws novel all had a leftist outlook. Very few authors get a bad review but I was pleased the entries on Tanith Lee and SP Somtow were so positive; oddly the opinion in Horror Needs No Passport that Koji Suzuki is a bad writer saved by great ideas is not included here. Was Rosemary Timperley really more popular than Daphne Du Maurier? Timperley is fairly obscure these days and much of her short stories are impossible to find, even hard enough to find her novels.

I wish Nevins had made it clearer which authors he had himself read extensively and which he was going more on other scholars' research. We are often told a writer uses certain subjects and approaches "to terrify the reader" and I'm generally guessing this is more the intent of the authors rather than the actual effect on most of its readers? But it's not clear. How often is anything expected to terrify an experienced horror reader?

At the end he lists a lot of authors he would like to have covered but didn't have the time to. Some were big enough to surprise me (Graham Masterton). I'm surprised he didn't mention Jessica Amanda Salmonson here because he admires her as a scholar and cites her often. Nevins given Fantastic Victoriana an enormous update so maybe this will receive some expansion years down the line too?

This book could have used another proofreading, the typos are generally minor but there's a few bigger mistakes like Julian Gracq being called "Jean Gracq", Basil Copper is called "Basil Cooper" a few times.

Some further complaints and more minor quibbles.
- Brian Eno is wrongly listed as the producer of Velvet Underground's debut album (a comparison is made about the relatively low sales of Weird Tales despite its enormous influence to what Eno said about Velvet Undergound's debut).
- Hugh B Cave's comeback is not mentioned, only his pulp era.
- Marion Zimmer Bradley is mentioned in the context of 40s ghost stories. Bradley did start publishing in the late 40s but I doubt this is who Nevins meant.
- Datlow's part of Year's Best Fantasy & Horror is mentioned but I thought it was worth mentioning how many editors came before in this type of anthology.
- I was pleased to see the section on 60s/70s paperback era gothic romances but it seems to only scratch the surface, given the enormous number of book covers I've seen from this particular era.
- The RPG section doesn't mention Worlds Of Darkness.
- Some novels are included for sheer misery and I kept expecting to see Samuel Delany's Hogg but it wasn't there.
- I wanted some elaboration on why the 80s were a golden age and why the 90s were a slump. Is this purely about sales? Nevins says (noting a rare agreement with Joshi) that the slump allowed more artistic writers to cater to a more sophisticated readership. But couldn't this still have happened within the genre if sales had been better?
- I would have liked much more opinions rather than the encyclopedia approach it takes most of the time.

Despite all this, it's a very good book, not as vital as Horror Needs No Passport but still an achievement.

3/4 of the way through a book that was recommended by both James Morrison and ledge and it is not disappointing. Can’t wait to see what will happen after the dust storm ends.

― We Jam von Economo (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 23 January 2020 01:17 (one year ago) link

So far seems to be shaping up to be an instant ILB sf classic, a worthy successor to Inverted World.

― We Jam von Economo (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 23 January 2020 01:23 (one year ago) link

Which?

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 23 January 2020 01:24 (one year ago) link

Theory of Bastards, by Audrey Schulman.

― We Jam von Economo (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 23 January 2020 01:29 (one year ago) link

So, this was one of the last books I bought in-person pre-pandemic, and I've just now gotten around to reading it. I'm halfway through, and I'm loving it so far!

(Also in a truly bizarre coincidence, I started reading it the day after my mom called to tell me about a Genius-grant-recipient former colleague and friend of hers, whom I met once many years ago, being written up in the New York Times for her work on endometriosis!)

> a worthy successor to Inverted World.

IW is currently 99p on kindle in the uk

Cool. Maybe the handful of stragglers here who haven’t read it can catch up. Or maybe it has already been relegated to Olde ILX/Olde SF Thread and has fallen out of favor.

> the handful of stragglers here who haven’t read it

*SOBS*

i miss shakey big-upping silverbob

Totally

Jeff VanderMeer - Hummingbird Salamander

I had only read his Area X books before. Does he write all of his books like this? It spends page after page saying how significant the hummingbird and the salamander are, but it takes ages to explain why. (Supposedly because of events in the narrator's life, but this turns out to be untrue, despite her supposedly writing the book down after she has learned that it's untrue.) Most of the novel has the form of a Dan Brown quest but the clues are obviously nonsense, and lead to another clue anyway, despite it all ending up to be irrelevant in the final pages. My least favorite piece of fiction that I've read in quite a while.

frederik pohl - 'the world at the end of time'

conventional human ark-ship colonization story + 'tau zero'-ish time dilation interspersed with the ramblings of a plasma-based superbeing roughly as old as the universe.

unfortunately the main human character is an annoying prick, and it's unclear why anyone else cares about him. at one point he's reunited with someone he thought long dead, which should have been monumental but is passed over quickly because him having truly missed them isn't believable and the returning character has no depth whatsoever.

there's some awkward sex stuff, although tbf it's not as bad as that of most of his old-school sci-fi colleagues. the superbeing, despite having every other chapter devoted to it, has no role to play other than inadvertently causing the time dilation. not only does it not actually encounter our humans, it only becomes dimly aware of them in the final pages.

not v. good. only other thing i've read by him is the first heechee book; iirc that was better

Wolfbane is a ride for sure, he was at his best in collaboration with CM Kornbluth imo

I know this is very much scraping the bottom of the barrel, but: I have a lot of affection for the Warhammer and (to a lesser degree) Warhammer 40k universes. Anyone know of any novelizations or audio dramas set in those worlds that are good?

I think Pohl was a good guy, a nice person, based on what I've read and meeting him once, as well as being a good editor but yeah, his best work was Gateway and his stuff with CM Kornbluth. Shakey had some ability to slog through some of other things I didn't have the patience for.

Pohl is a strange one - when he's on his game - Gateway, Man Plus, some of the short stories like 'Tunnel under the world' and 'The Midas plague' - he's definitely top tier, and certainly a more pleasing stylist than someone like Asimov. But there are long stretches in his career where he writes almost nothing of note, ie most of the sixties and pretty much everything after Jem in 1979 (he wrote close to twenty novels from 1980 until his death, but none of them seem to be very highly regarded). I guess like so many SF authors he wrote too much, too carelessly.

Was going to mention "The Tunnel Under the World," which is indeed classic. Shakey stanned for Man Plus iirc.

Daniel - I haven't read any of them but I've heard good things about Guy Haley, Kim Newman, Dan Abnett and Stableford (as Brian Craig) in the Warhammer universe.

Still making my way through Clark Ashton Smith. After a few science fiction stories that seemed half-hearted he really indulges in Maze Of The Enchanter and a sequel to Vathek. It wasn't unusual for him to get rejections like "too sophisticated for our readers". Admittedly you do need a very good dictionary handy. The ending to Maze was a letdown for me but I liked it otherwise. Might read Vathek before this sequel.

Some people romanticize the pulps but it seems like a really crap time to have been writing, but until internet times it seems like there was only room for a few things unless you were content with the small press magazines that started in the 70s.

Room for a few things = a narrow selection genres and approaches.

Oh cool, didn't know Kim Newman wrote for them!

Some people romanticize the pulps but it seems like a really crap time to have been writing

This is surely part of the romance, as with comics, classic Hollywood studio system, 60's Pop, etc.? Artists maudits cranking out work at an insane pace, viewing it as a job not a calling (but deep down they know it's a calling!), ignored by the world at large. Sucks to have actually lived through it but for fans it gives the era extra pathos.

I think part of it is that very few people actually go back and read Weird Tales issue by issue. Nevins and Joshi give the impression it was actually a really low quality magazine, but its best writers changed the world.

Newman's Warhammer omnibus
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?828433

Reading about their individual story rejections tells you a lot about the magazines.

Newman's Warhammer novels were originally published under his pseudonym, Jack Yeovil, btw

I'm quite annoyed they resold them individually after the first omnibus came out. I bought Silver Bullets assuming it was the omnibus but somehow I didn't consider how slim it is.

micaiah johnson, the space between worlds

the multiverse is real, and certain people can travel between realities -- but only to those in which their local counterparts are dead.

this was pretty grebt imo

It didn't work for me, I couldn't really warm to the protagonist or get a decent handle on her life situation - I file that on the 'it's not you it's me' shelf of criticism though. It's certainly not as bad as the violent teenage revenge fantasy of Nophek Gloss that I suffered through recently.

Hmm. I usually trust the two of you so... I hope some tiebreaker will weigh in.

Try it, you have nothing to lose but your precious minutes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSbcIlvcEA

Read the sample. Found the world/worlds/worldbuilding really intriguing. There is something about the writing style that is interesting but a little cryptic to me, can’t tell how I will feel if I pony up. The road to the New Maps of Hell is littered with unread ebook purchases. James Morrison to thread!

Just picked up a cheap paperback of Hyperion. Dear lord the sex writing.

I picked up on the recommendation of a trusted friend. Thoughts? My impression is that it’s pretty good, sex excepted, even if the author is a peak SF shithead.

Haven't listened to this one yet but I always enjoy the legacy episodes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbPnhnWzJU

https://wizardstowerpress.com/books-2/chaz-brenchley/three-twins-at-the-crater-school/

This looks pretty cool

documentary on afro futurism on bbc4 tomorrow

Cool. The book mookie recently mentioned is relevant to that.

Reminding me: did yall see this on the Samuel Delany thread:

Delany posted yesterday (FB) about choosing clothes for a New Yorker photo shoot. Fingers crossed for a full profile.

― In my house are many Manchins (WmC), Tuesday, May 18, 2021 1:08 PM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hope so! They published an astute take on the work of Octavia Butler in March, guess the rest is behind paywall (I happened to see the print edition), but here's the opening: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/15/how-octavia-e-butler-reimagines-sex-and-survival

― dow, Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:03 PM (three days ago)
The link hots it up, no prob but be it known the print is more precise:
Stranger Communities
Octavia E. Butler's vision of struggle and symbiosis
By Julian Lucas
Will have to find some more by Lucas.

Zelazny podcast was nice, (as always with the legacy episodes) it's promoting a study of the writer, this one contesting the idea that Zelazny became a hack rather than live up to his promise, although it seems the Amber series was prolonged a bit for money.

Really wish there were less novels or at least less pressure to write them but recently I've found myself reading them more often and hoping the payoff will be worth it.

on the Rolling Speculative slipstream or other trans-subgene side of things, Wormwoodia's Mark Valentine says:

Hy Brasil is an island in the Atlantic, somewhere over the horizon from Ireland, Iceland and the Azores, that has been sighted several times since the Middle Ages and has given rise to many legends. Said to have towns with towers of gold, thought to be often shrouded in mist, it has been identified with the Fortunate Isles that the Celts believed lay in the sunset regions to the West, and with the fierce, fair and free lands that Viking voyagers discovered.

It continued on nautical maps and atlases into the late 19th century, but was eventually removed, along with other islands that had once been seen and plotted but now cannot be found. This is a very beguiling subject and there are a small number of books on the theme, including Raymond Ramsay's No Longer On the Map (1972), Henry Stommel's Lost Islands: The Story of Islands That Have Vanished from Nautical Charts (1984) and Donald S Johnson's Phantom Islands of the Atlantic (1994). Who could resist such alluring titles?

Scottish author Margaret Elphinstone published one of the best modern novels with an island setting in her splendidly-imagined novel set on Hy Brasil and its smaller sister islands. In her Hy Brasil (2002), she creates a many-dimensioned version of the realm, with its mixed heritage from all the lands of the North Atlantic littoral, its obscure, half-mythic origins, its colonial pride yet independent spirit, and its modern dilemmas as a new nation.
A skillful story-teller, she brings in many relishable themes; spying, smuggling, conspiracy, a volcano, rebellion, exile, roads taken and not taken. Through the travel notes of a self-aware, but still learning, young woman, the charmingly-named Sidony Redruth, we discover the eminently convincing history, legends and culture of the island: but we are also drawn to understand the human qualities and foibles of the island characters.
More here, incl. a Hy Brasil postage stamp, and link to interview w Margaret E.:
http://wormwoodiana.blogspot.com/2021/05/hy-brasil-margaret-elphinstone.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Wormwoodiana+%28Wormwoodiana%29

also re: missing islands is Sarah Tolmie’s The Fourth Island

(i haven't read it tho)

Starting on Le Guin's The Telling, the last of the Hainish cycle. Excellent so far. After that I'll be getting into completist territory - a couple of early novels and collections, Lavinia, the Annals of the Western Shore trilogy - anyone read that?

Lavinia is fantastic.

Good to hear, how much Aeneid knowledge is required though?

I have zero...

tau zero?

Finished The Telling, Classic Le Guin, it slipped down like a '78 amontillado. Not overly sophisticated politically perhaps, but anthropologically rich, and with the usual lasting top note of compassion.

https://ansible.uk/sfx/sfx073.html

I couldn't get into Lavinia for some reason; I tried but something about the voice/style didn't work for me. I can't remember why, though, so maybe I'll try again.