CREEM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_3W6f6QuSM

I had signed up for this but messed up the start time; it's on YouTube anyway.

Jaan Uhelszki and Susan Whitall are excellent. I almost wish the whole Creem documentary had been just them in conversation--they're able to talk about those years in a way that doesn't sound dated at all. (Because they don't dwell on the party; they don't ignore that part of the story, but it's not front and center.) Chuck's good too--at times it felt like he was deferential to the two women, being someone who came to the magazine much later.

The one time Whitall does sound dated to me is her contention that if you want music writing to again mean what it mean then*, people need to stop writing for free. Agree totally with Chuck's resignation: it wouldn't matter at all, they'd (whoever "they" is) just move onto the next person. You either put your thoughts out there for free--here, on Facebook, on a blog, on a year-end ballot, wherever--or you keep them to yourself. I realize some people make some money, and maybe a handful of people make more than that, but basically that ship has sailed.

*Someone will tell me I'm old and that there's music writing now that means just as much to some readers as anything written 40 or 50 years ago. I don't believe that, but it's not a view I have the energy or interest to defend.

I also thought Marsh himself was part of these panels--not the two I've seen, and that's disappointing.

Okay, the link doesn't work, you have to watch it right on YouTube.

Just watched the Detroit panel, which was fascinating (and John Sinclair’s cranky crustiness/crusty crankyness was on full display). These panels are meant as a tribute to Marsh, hence his non-participation thus far, but I believe he’ll be part of a later panel or two.

Also, everyone on the Detroit panel — writer-activist Marsha Music, Sinclair, Wayne Kramer, writer Peter Werbe — agreed that Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels were one of the greatest bands to come out of that city (which is to say, the US), and are sadly and criminally underrated.

I'll definitely watch some of that once it gets posted.

JJ Kramer's current top tiers:

https://www.billboard.com/business/business-news/creem-entertainment-john-martin-ceo-1235065835/

Trying to make sense of that--what they actually plan to do--would require a much more careful read than I gave it.

"Future plans for the brand will be announced soon."

The only thing worse than them not getting something off the ground would be them getting something off the ground.

I got my first issue of Creem when I was probably 11 years old, around 1976. I remember Mick and Keith were on the cover. It would be hard for me to count the number of bands I learned about through that magazine--sometimes more than I wanted to know. "Backstage" was always a little weird. And Lester Bangs was incomparable.

Just to clarify...Old Creem was sometimes great and, if you go back today, sometimes dated in ways you would expect. But it was 100% of its moment. The idea of trying to relaunch it today, in any kind of guise, is preposterous.

Yeah, it was lightning in a bottle. Impossible to recapture.

the xpost ideas of Bangs, Meltzer, Tosches preserved in their collections, although in the context of Creem, their writing was most notable for the savory details of reviewing, stirring the music---Bangs the most inclined to test tags and formulations (is early 70s James Taylor a punk? Is Helen Reddy?) and givens, including his own: "But still the jade in the marrow must bob up and snarl." Could be a stunt, to an extent: he approvingly quoted his friend Ivan Julian's take on the long-running love-feud (somewhat one-sided) with Lou Reed as "wrestling scripts," but then he finally moved to New York and made it his soapbox bitch and so on (I was so glad when he took it to the stage, hoped he'd keep it there)
What I saw of the Creem doc tended to the Lestercentric, not too terribly much, but I'd really like to see is the camera slowly patrolling, savoring the pages of Creem, up and down, like in the Crumb[ doc, we get some of the pages of his comics and sketchbooks like that. Also, of course, close-ups of the captions, of lucky stars photographed while (presumably) savoring their Boy Howdy! beers.

They've just announced (to their mailing list & online fanclub) an online archive with every issue.

whoa

cool i've never seen those early newspaper style issues.

would buy

Certainly much more sensible than trying to relaunch it.

I wonder if they will have the NYC-incarnation of the mag that I wrote for in the early-mid '90s.

I haven't dug into the archives yet (though the publicist for the relaunch has offered me access) but this seems like a mag that would have aged about as well as Gerard Cosloy's or Steve Albini's old zines. And why exactly is it coming back?

https://www.creem.com/pages/archive

(xpost) I came to the magazine late, around 1980, so I don't know the early years beyond the occasional reprint. My guess is it's a mix of the typically dated and some stuff that holds up just fine. There was lots of good writing in those early '80s issues from Richard Riegel, Robot A. Hull, J. Kordosh, etc.

Anyone seen the first new print issue?

it's.....not embarassing? they haven't really found their voice, the yuks aren't really there, but only a couple of the pieces read like they could have been written by publicists and the level of writing is decent for what seems like a bunch of newcomers. only one writer tried the bangs schtick. bandwidth is pretty wide. don't love the oversized format. gutsy move, though, introducing a rock mag in this day and age. i basically subscribed for access to the archives, so the print publication is a nice extra.

plus where were the record reviews? i guess they figure that they wouldn't be timely enough in a quarterly? what's creem without record reviews?

I've seen reviews on the website. Most of them are capsule length and get updated weekly.

ok yeah i should take a look there. the bowie supplement they sent along with the first issue is interesting. it prints their legacy reviews of the successive bowie lps. the first one to get a fullthroated thumbs up is "pin ups," from lester bangs. i haven't read the "trixie a. balm" ones yet (aka lauren agnelli of nervous rex / washington squares fame). plus the casual denigration of groupies and that fellow with the hispanic accent in cameron crowe's piece! the rules for hipster discourse have sure changed.

I've been totally geeking out on the archive. They did a great job digitizing (though the interface is a little bit painful).

The archive is fantastic. I’ve been reading 1972 month by month, along with the old PDFs I have of Rolling Stone for the same period, and it’s fun to see the contrast.

I watched the documentary yesterday as well. An enjoyable overview, but… gah. The older I get, the less tolerance I have for the “charm” of assholes, especially when the success of a project it attributed to their toxic behavior, under the guise of how "rebellious” or whatever they are—like CREEM wouldn’t have worked if it had a respectful workplace. It’s similar to how trashing hotels was once badass rock star behavior, but now I just think of the poorly paid maids who had to clean it all up. Or all those countercultural ’70s films where we’re meant to read the protagonist's shitty behavior as righteous, but when I watch now, they just seem like massive pricks.

Anyone besides the last two posters above have access to the archives? I'm looking for one specific review, but don't really want to take out a subscription. Please send me board e-mail if you can help. (Already tried broom air/blatherskite, no response.)

Big thanks to Thus Sang Freud.

My apologies! My messages go to an email that I no longer have access to.

No problem--probably a lot of e-mail addresses here are outdated.