https://embedded.substack.com/p/a-celebrated-feminist-facebook-group
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 26 April 2021 19:14 (two years ago) link
no way url slugs
― Canon in Deez (silby), Monday, 26 April 2021 20:02 (two years ago) link
lol
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Monday, 26 April 2021 20:09 (two years ago) link
Can’t these apologies ever be along the lines of “Jesus Christ, what the fuck was wrong with me”?
Ehhh not a comment on this particular infraction but the public apology has become such a cliché and punchline at this point that I doubt it can be pulled off in a way that won't read as insincere to most people. "Jesus Christ what the fuck was wrong with me?" could easily tip over into performative hand-wringing and making-it-all-about-yourself for instance.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 April 2021 09:03 (two years ago) link
Meanwhile it seems Philip Roth's biographer is a creep or worse― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 18:16 (one week ago) link
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 18:16 (one week ago) link
I didn't think I cared about this story, but I ended up reading the two pieces on Slate (one first-person account, one investigative reporting) and they were both so powerfully written, I was just absolutely gutted by the end.
― Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:07 (two years ago) link
Ugh, just glanced at that. I can't even. Did you ever read the one about the Horace Mann teacher?
― A Stop at Quilloughby (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:47 (two years ago) link
Does the Believer guy bathing in a mesh shirt on a Zoom call count as a clusterfuck?
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:54 (two years ago) link
clusterducky you’re the one
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Saturday, 1 May 2021 00:07 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCEG6lV0ek
― A Stop at Quilloughby (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 1 May 2021 00:10 (two years ago) link
maybe there's more going on, but the believer guy seems more foolish and unfortunate than anything else
otoh maybe a guy who's in so much pain that he has to take work meetings in the tub yet doesn't consider wearing swim trunks shouldn't really be in charge of anything
― mookieproof, Saturday, 1 May 2021 00:19 (two years ago) link
ah
https://desertnote-97667.medium.com/open-letter-regarding-joshua-shenk-la-times-and-unlv-cf0f515015b9
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 4 May 2021 19:19 (two years ago) link
I don't understand how it makes sense to say both "the exposure on the Zoom call may not have been intentional" and "we view it as an act of sexual harassment".
― JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 05:45 (two years ago) link
JRN, sexual harassment does not depend on the intention of the harasser, but on whether the people consider the behavior unwelcome. However unintentional the bathtub incident may have been, it was behavior of a sexual nature that was unwelcome.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:00 (two years ago) link
Why was he in the bathtub while on a call?
― treeship., Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:41 (two years ago) link
I think indecent exposure, accidentally, via Zoom is possible, and I don’t think it would be sexual harassment then. Like what if you forget you were in a waiting room and the host suddenly lets you into the meeting? Or you thought you signed off but didn’t. The app runs in the background, behind your other apps.
In this case he was already naked on the call which seems weird.
― treeship., Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:44 (two years ago) link
His explanation is that he has fibromyalgia and was soaking in the tub to manage pain. I'm not sure that's being challenged, as such.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:52 (two years ago) link
Or rather it's being viewed sceptically but no alternate account of events has been publicised.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:53 (two years ago) link
I understand that you can harass without intending to--but can you harass via an action you didn't even intend to perform? If a boss accidentally tripped and fell into an employee's lap, could that count as sexual harassment? That seems to be the suggestion in the open letter. I don't get it, the response seems plenty strong without it.
― JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:19 (two years ago) link
That letter pretty clearly says "Sure, this one thing might have been accidental, but he's just the kind of asshole who'd do something like this on purpose, and you better believe we've got some stories we could tell."
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:26 (two years ago) link
^^^ that was my take, seems like employees he's treated like shit over the years are all too happy to put this incident into an overall pattern of behavior
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:28 (two years ago) link
the Open Letter is suggesting the harassment was because he had a pattern of being negligent and showing disregard for the staffers, suggesting that he cares little enough about the sensitivities of his co-workers that he wouldn't take precautions to prevent the possibility of something like that even happening (like, perhaps attending the call on audio only, or ....not being in the tub).
but with that being said, it is really fucking easy to fuck up web cam by accident. I had a new laptop once and hit a button in WebEx by mistake and it flipped my camera on while I was shirtless (I immediately ducked under the table and threw a shirt on and flipped camera off).
I teach classes regularly and yes, on days when I haven't been required to use web cam, I always make sure I'm attired for that reason. but I think "this was a freak accident" is probably likely.
― Filibuster Poindexter (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:37 (two years ago) link
or what unperson and jon said. dammit, took too long to rewrite the message
― Filibuster Poindexter (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:38 (two years ago) link
Having worked for a couple of years at a small lit magazine of Believer-y proportions, edited by a total asshole who made everyone's lives miserable, the open letter rings completely accurate to me.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:40 (two years ago) link
I guess the point is, some freak accidents are less freaky than others
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:41 (two years ago) link
Yeah one rather obvious reading would be "it may have been unintentional, but given our other experiences, we doubt it". So never mind what I said before.
― JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:44 (two years ago) link
I'm not sure it's even that - it seems close to 'it may have been unintentional but only someone who doesn't care about their staff's wellbeing could have put themselves in a position to make that mistake in the first place', which idk.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 15:31 (two years ago) link
Yeah. "I forgot to be careful" is only a hair from "I couldn't be bothered to be careful".
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 16:28 (two years ago) link
Not having a shirt on and having one's camera come on by accident is very different from what this guy did, y'all. He literally was on a call, naked. Either he doesn't give a shit or shouldn't have been on the call because he was in too much pain.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 16:54 (two years ago) link
Wondering if there was any benefit to this meeting being a Zoom call instead of a conference call by phone. Dude could still have a job if he’d said that he had to be in the tub because of his medical condition and so maybe a call would be better, or else had kept the camera off for the call for the same reason.
― too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 17:40 (two years ago) link
Hmm x2
The article did not quote anyone else who had been present, and so there was little room for Shenk’s exposure to be interpreted as anything more than an unfortunate mistake. Staffers were incensed. “This article is all he needs to get himself another job where he can endanger people,” a colleague wrote to me. This was the first we were hearing about a bathtub, and several other details in the article seemed to be acting as convenient distractions; for instance, the “mesh shirt” Shenk was supposedly wearing had appeared on screen to be a normal-looking white t-shirt.
https://defector.com/whats-happening-at-the-believer-is-about-more-than-just-a-zoom-incident/
― Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Thursday, 6 May 2021 20:47 (two years ago) link
yeah I'm inclined to believe his employees' account, pretty fucked how many journalistic publications spiked the employee comments.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 6 May 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link
Skyhorse Publishing has picked up the Philip Roth biography. Check out their website to see the other fine, fine books they publish...
http://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 17 May 2021 21:08 (two years ago) link
I think I've got one of their Robert F Jones books. Since when did they become associated with Night Shade Books? I love Night Shade.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 17 May 2021 21:23 (two years ago) link
They publish all sorts of stuff, literally no filter
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 08:38 (two years ago) link
Skyhorse Publishing’s House of HorrorsSkyhorse Publishing, literary home to Michael Cohen, Woody Allen, and Alan Dershowitz, has struggled with bigger problems than a roster of political unsavories. Interviews suggest a history of workplace toxicity and inappropriate behavior.
Skyhorse Publishing, literary home to Michael Cohen, Woody Allen, and Alan Dershowitz, has struggled with bigger problems than a roster of political unsavories. Interviews suggest a history of workplace toxicity and inappropriate behavior.
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 19:19 (two years ago) link
Wow shocking
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 19:45 (two years ago) link
https://www.chimamanda.com/
have at it folks
― imago, Thursday, 17 June 2021 10:27 (two years ago) link
the chimamanda essay is essential reading but this part just absolutely nails everything that is wrong with this generation pic.twitter.com/5wW1pn3SlJ— jonathan nunn (@demarionunn) June 17, 2021
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 17 June 2021 10:30 (two years ago) link
way to make it personal, lol
― imago, Thursday, 17 June 2021 10:59 (two years ago) link
i remember her comment about trans women from 2017 and thinking "well i'm just never going to read this person's work"; i am going to continue not reading her work
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 17 June 2021 12:40 (two years ago) link
thispersondoesnotexist.com
― calzino, Thursday, 17 June 2021 12:44 (two years ago) link
Screaming about kindness while denying groups their right to be and exist. Oh, and I love literature btw.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 17 June 2021 12:53 (two years ago) link
when the personal emails get published on the blogs is when you know the cluster is reaching its fuck horizon
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 17 June 2021 12:59 (two years ago) link
💁🏻♂️🦋 Is this time cube
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Thursday, 17 June 2021 14:40 (two years ago) link
I don't even think that thing rises to the level of a clusterfuck, it's just an author rehashing conventional wisdom about how the internet is bad and everybody is mean and nobody actually *thinks* anymore except your clear-eyed correspondent
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 17 June 2021 15:13 (two years ago) link
i cannot fucking imagine the level of solipsism one must have to think that "being afraid to tweet" is a legitimate concern in 2021
anyway Ben Shapiro retweeted it which i imagine if she has any shame, she must be thrilled about
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Thursday, 17 June 2021 15:16 (two years ago) link
It doesn't appear that her "cancellation" really hurt considering that she has the clout to get a publisher to stop production of someone else's book to remove offending matter
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 17 June 2021 15:34 (two years ago) link
"She didn't tolerate my intolerance! I won't tolerate her intolerance of my intolerance! Waaaaaaah"
― wasdnuos (abanana), Thursday, 17 June 2021 16:21 (two years ago) link
There's a lot of puffed-up bullshit in that essay but "I don't think this person who kissed my ass when she wanted something, then talked shit about me when I said something she didn't like, should get to use my name in her PR materials like we're BFFs" is an unreasonable position.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 17 June 2021 16:40 (two years ago) link
That position isn't unreasonable at all, but the parts of the piece that the usual people are quote-tweeting as "SO BRAVE AND NECESSARY" are the puffed-up bullshit.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 18 June 2021 18:55 (two years ago) link