Stratocaster vs. Telecaster

right on, i looked at those, and looked seriously at used epiphone elitist LPs as well. this is dorky but i'm a huge, huge, fan of clay tarver's work in chavez and he only ever plays a goldtop with p-90s, which the elitist line never did. when i got home with the FGN and plugged it into my very basic amp/overdrive setup i was immediately like oh yeah, that's exactly the sound i wanted.

My Les Paul is an Epi Gold Top '56 reissue with Fralin P-90s and upgraded electronics, etc (that I got for a pittance), and currently it's the guitar I gravitate to the most, and the one that simultaneously makes me feel like and wish I was a better player.

Just like strats I always kind of hated les pauls despite never playing one but not long ago I started thinking about a gold top one. But I like single coils and already have a frankensteined tele deluxe with p90s so it would fit no niche.


Also I would love a rickenbacker bass but they tend to cost more than the six guitars I own combined (minus the 1974 sg I bought during early covid panic). I kind of gasp when I see old pictures of like shitty punk bands where the bass player has one.

I should do a collection picture, I haven't done one in about 10 years

i'm kind of in awe at how rickenbacker has managed to hold their market position and the value of their instruments, there are literally no deals on ric stuff

Yeah, there was that time about 8 years ago when they just jacked the price of the entire range, and the used market followed. They've been super litigious about clones, even mentioning them online draws legal threats for discussion forums (looks over shoulder nervously).

current production fender lines were naff for a while, but i have been so surprised at the quality of squier models lately when trying out in the shop. solid builds, unlike new epiphone... they feel terrible. i used to own a korean made epi les paul, probably around 2006 model, and it was a tank, never went out of tune.

I just got a Korean Tokai Les Paul and I love it.

Anyway on the question of why tele/strat are slanted, the story I heard is that when Leo Fender was developing the Tele he wanted to use an existing pickup from a lap steel. Being too wide it had to be slanted in order to match the string spacing.

I have a Squier Thinline Tele that I rather like. It's a fun little kick-around instrument.

Over the years I've had a bunch of Epiphones - notably a Les Paul and a 339. Good quality instruments but they just didn't fit me, sonically speaking. I am a single-coil dude at heart.

They've been super litigious about clones,

I've seen maybe 3-4 faux-Rickenbackers ever. And only in photos/film/video (Wendy Melvoin played one in Purple Rain).

When companies started copying strats, teles, and Les Pauls did it simply not occur to Fender or Gibson to go after those manufacturers? Or was it that there were so many that the number of lawsuits would've been overwhelming in terms of time and resources?

Gibson did sit pretty hard on PRS.

For Fender, the horse had long since left the barn.

as i understand it fender/gibson went after manufacturers that copied their headstock designs closely but not other aspects of the design. as it happens both companies were being run into the ground by horrible management when the asian copies started ramping up. one would think that more thoughtful leadership might have done more to protect the brands.

I looked up the Gibson/PRS lawsuit, and it's kind of amazing that a) Gibson waited until 2000 to sue another manufacturer, and b) because of how dumb and shaky Gibson's basis for the suit was:

https://reverb.com/news/the-true-stories-behind-6-famous-gear-lawsuits

Gibson claimed that people at a dark concert venue would confuse the PRS Single Cut with its Les Paul when seen played on a smokey stage. Their case was outright baffling, though, given the huge amount of exact Les Paul clones that had hit the market since the ‘70s. It seems like Gibson's impetus behind the suit was to try to edge out one of its few competitors in the high–end market.

until recently gibson was operated by some of the stupidest and worst people alive

I was wrong: Gibson did file a suit in the late '70s, but limited it to headstock design for some reason, as you pointed out (from the reverb link):

In the 1970s, Japanese manufacturers began producing guitars and basses that were on par, and sometimes at higher quality than, instruments made by America’s biggest brands. Famously, these were generally exact clones of the products offered by these brands.

Sometimes, like in Martin's case, that was the result of an outsourcing partnership. Sometimes it was just outright copycatting.

The instruments built in this era tend to be referred to as “lawsuit” guitars, based on the widely held misconception that these American companies went after Ibanez, Greco, Univox and others for cloning their designs. The truth is that most companies didn’t bother chasing down these companies on account of the difficulties of enforcing copyright overseas.

But in 1978, Gibson found a way to fight back and took the Elger Company to court in Philadelphia. Elger was initially a distributor who imported Japanese–made guitars from the Hoshino Gakki manufacturer to the states. This is where those Ibanez clones came from. Eventually, Hoshino bought Elger, which kept its base in Pennsylvania. That’s how Gibson was able to take Hoshino head on.

Gibson didn’t fight to stop Hoshino from producing or importing the clones, but simply from cloning the exact “open book” or “mustache” design of its headstocks. The idea was that consumers might confuse those Japanese imports with the real deal, and the judge ruled in Gibson’s favor.

until recently gibson was operated by some of the stupidest and worst people alive

Cf. CBS Fender

Greco made a Rickenbacker clone called the Rockinbetter, last one I saw for sale was a bit over $1k so only a few hundred off a real used 330, seemed kind of pointless.

er wait Tokai was the Rockinbetter IIRC, Greco just used numbers

Rogue made a fake Rickenbacker 330 in the mid ‘90s. I saw it once in a Musicians Friend or American Music Supply catalog, and then it disappeared.

Walnut and maple Rickenbacker is wrong but also v. v. right

https://i.imgur.com/IneXhXp.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/cWE1qh2.png?1

I often think that if I had to own one Rick, it would be the 340 mapleglo as played by Peter Buck on the Rockpalast show in ‘85

I'm smitten with these Rivolta Combinata line guitars that are obvs inspired by Ric but not direct copies. If the inlays didn't go from edge to edge on the fretboard (which seems a little much), they'd be an absolutely perfect match with my tastes.

https://i.imgur.com/GtWLiXz.jpg

ugh yes that inlay is awful

So bad. Rest looks cool. Do we have a general gear show n tell and want list thread?

that is a good idea

I Make Music has a couple of threads where folks have shared their stuff.

(also that Rickenbacker bass is $1900 and I just received a credit card that's 0% interest for the first year and $300 back after I spend x dollars and it's real tempting to make a poor life choice)

DO IT

this has been on Craigslist, Melody Maker with what looks to be Gretsch Filter'tron type pickups, would love to get this and put a Bigsby on it

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/msg/d/saint-paul-anniversary-edition-gibson/7303242274.html

yeah that’s dying for a bigsby

(also asking price looks a little steep based on a quick search)

I thought so, the big attraction is the color and I love those Gretsch/TV Jones style pickups but feels at least a couple hundred high

Why do I dislike painted necks so much? It’s not like there is any material difference to a clear coat.

late to thread but yeah I love the look of the combinata and could live with the headstock but the inlays absolutely kill it for me.

xpost It's a '61 reissue with '57 classic PAFs, have to check the actual year of reissue (I think '99?). The guy I got it from had an active Duncan pickup put in the bridge and Sperzel tuners, but I had the original reissue stuff put back in. Still have all that extra stuff though.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, April 9, 2021 5:47 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh nice. let me know when you want to sell i may be interested.

Spottie - what's your opinion on the Telecaster Cabronita (MIM) w/the Filtertron style pickups?

those are awesome imo. i remember them a/b testing the custom shop one vs the mim one and it was pretty close. those fidelitron pickups are good. visually i liked the thinline version a bit more. they even did a squier one with a bigsby that people were into.

cool, they are nice looking. i love filter'trons, had a gretsch electromatic i really regret trading

lol i'm having such g.a.s. that i'm looking at a brian may guitar

well shit...thank you to everyone for getting me all tele nuts bought something I don't really need....however this is EXACTLY the guitar I've wanted, tele with a bigsby and filtertron at the neck...big thing was it has a Mastery bridge AND a replacement Lindy Fralin bridge pickup and locking tuners

https://reverb.com/item/39853390-squire-vintage-modified-cabronita-telecaster

That guitar is rad.

wow man thats super nice

i'd been looking at cabronitas, but still wanted the trad telecaster sound too. this one, i figured buying the pickup, tuners and bridge and getting them professionally installed would be getting close to the price he's selling it for

spottie - be curious on your opinion but i don't detect a ton of different between the higher end squier stuff (classic vibe, vintage modified, etc) and the MIM stuff anymore

looks great! big fan of buying stuff with the mods you want already done so you can get right down to enjoying the guitar.

the good squier stuff is really good. loads of pros use squier and just mod them like what you're doing. that one you got will hold value, if not increase (if you care about such things). the mim stuff is really great. there was always this unspoken competition between the corona factory and ensenada factory. the mexico factory had a ton of pride in their work and wanted to show they could make guitars better or at least as good. they would take on some pretty cool projects (like the troy van luween jazzmaster). the main issue you'll find with mim stuff is like fret sprout. tonal differences and playability are minimal between mim/squier and if you're putting new pickups in and coloring it with pedals/fx then it doesnt matter. classic vibe/VM squiers are almost too good, there was rumblings of making them worse to not eat into the fender line but in the end i think they just raised the prices.

that's interesting, love all the inside baseball stuff like that

shit that blows my mind is the custom shop stuff people pay so much money for something that still like 90% a stock American strat with a cool color and a couple interesting wiring gimmicks

https://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/products/fender-custom-shop-1960-stratocaster-chicago-special-1026985?variant=39299360161927

custom shop is mostly all prestige collectibles for rich boomers, not really much more to it. they sell like CRAZY tho believe it or not. even inside a lot of the people roll eyes at the relic stuff but when they do their showcase at namm that stuff sells to dealers really fast. the master builders are mostly all super nice though and they really love what they and they do some incredible work (yuriy shishkov's stuff is insane and super gaudy but if that's your thing and you have unlimited funds then there's no one better). it's not unlike the sneaker head market really, most people dont get it but it's not for most people. the custom shop calendars are hilarious, just so much nonsense made for people with zero taste. having said all that i own a (non-relic'd) master built strat :)

there was pretty big drama when we got this one new ceo and he wanted to create a regular fender line (fender select) with like all snazzy appointments and figured woods and what not and it was basically just a custom shop guitar for a few hundred less. so much dumb leadership in my tenure but they seem to be in a really great place right now. he was trying to take them public but luckily it fell through at the last minute.

lol at 9.5" radius being "a modern upgrade" as if it wasn't possible in the 60s.
7.25 til I die baby, except of course for acoustics and my wonderful Casino.

xxxposts congrats on going with it ums. that looks like a glorious ride.