Buying A House: C or D?

Yeah, that's exactly the realization I came to when I managed to fix our old dryer. I was fairly proud of what I had done, but (1) it took me several hours and multiple trips to Home Depot, and I almost cried when I thought I wasn't going to be able to get an old rusted bolt off that was in an awkward place where I couldn't get any torque, (2) I spent 30 minutes anxiously watching it run afterwards, terrified that I had done something that would set the house on fire, (3) I was never 100% sure I correctly put the belt back on and (4) it died a month later anyway, necessitating a new dryer.

I do find it interesting to take things apart, see how they work, etc., but not enough to expend the time and/or risk fucking things up.

Lawyers know it's a bad idea to be your own lawyer, so hardly seems like a better idea to be your own plumber.

sounds like you learned something about yourself

Like an on-call service that could (1) send a handyman when you need it for simple stuff, (2) advise you on all home repair and renovation decisions and (3) help you find contractors for more serious stuff.

lol this is like the org i work for but it's for non-traditional housing/spaces -- we also do financial consulting re loans and stuff

i hear this song when i was like eight and the wisdom it contains occurs to me at least once a month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40CV0ZuEweM

I am lucky/unlucky enough to have a partner who spent a great portion of his life as a property manager and contractor. We laid a new kitchen floor a few weeks ago, it took all day but looks excellent.

The unfortunate aspect is that there are many, many projects where he refuses to hire someone when we could save a lot of time and energy by doing so.

I am feeling some tension now between DIY vs. hiring someone, not because I'm territorial about it (or, frankly, good at it). Rather, because I had a budget in mind for painting / fixing / decorating / landscaping and we've completely blown past it, with loads of things still to do.

In the meantime we're underwhelmed by the choices in our price range - if a house in my area is affordable it's generally because there's something wrong with it. A little bit outdated, weird, small, shabby... kinda like my house. Not sure we want this much upheaval for a marginal improvement or no improvement in our lives.

xp - this reminds me of the week where we did dishes in the bathroom because my partner was insistent on improving his plumbing skills by repairing/replacing the pipes below the kitchen sink.

two threads

I guess I'm a sadist so let's talk about California residential real estate.

Did you know it's bonkers? Like just completely bananas. Let's look at some examples.

— Sally Elshorafa (@sallykuchar) May 24, 2021

1 of 15: It has been hard to convey, through anecdotes or data, how bizarre the U.S. housing market has become. For example, a Bethesda, Maryland homebuyer working with @Redfin included in her written offer a pledge to name her first-born child after the seller. She lost.

— Glenn Kelman (@glennkelman) May 25, 2021

second thread is the CEO of redfin so he has a dog in the race, but first thread is an accurate description of the situation in coastal california afaict. things are very different to 18 months ago.

I’ll keep on renting.

we bought 6 months ago and things have gotten crazier here even in that short time. redfin is also an insane company that estimates our home's worth $400k higher than zillow and trulia.

For example, a Bethesda, Maryland homebuyer working with
@Redfin included in her written offer a pledge to name her first-born child after the seller. She lost."

Why is that bizarre? If someone made me that offer, I would think they were unhinged and would prefer to carry out a major financial transaction with someone else.

agreed

Some friends here in the Bay Area have waded into this maelstrom lately... watching the cash offers, the Teslas lined up outside open houses, the insane overbidding, insanely overpriced 'fixer-uppers'.
It doesn't sound fun or exciting at all, just depressing.

This is actually really good timing if you own a house and are married and getting divorced/separated.

we bought 6 months ago and things have gotten crazier here even in that short time. redfin is also an insane company that estimates our home's worth $400k higher than zillow and trulia.

― bogo jumbo junbi boba (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, May 25, 2021 12:34 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

haha i got suspicious about that so i wrote a bot to scrape my house value on redfin and zillow. on zillow it's a unhealthily fast but still smooth increase. on redfin it's all over the place.

https://i.imgur.com/VcSg7CT.png

the range on the y-axis is from 100% to 160% of purchace price. redfin is just making it up.

althuogh i guess the moral of those threads is making it up is no worse than the reasonable smooth behavior of the zillow estimate.

here's the code for anyone who's interested https://github.com/mikepqr/real-estate-scrape. includes the scraped data for a $100m mansion that redfin doubled the value of for a week.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mikepqr/real-estate-scrape/main/data.png

i don't know github. how do i enter my address into the code?

In my small boring midwestern US town (50% and 66% lower cost-of-living that LA or SF), I don't see 'for sale' signs out anymore, they seem to immediately put out 'sold' ones.

Based on the zillow numbers, in four years our house has gone up in value every month by an average of $50 more than our total monthly mortgage/interest/insurance payment which seems insane to me.

Idk if I said this somewhere but my parents just sold their house in 48 hours without even an open house, for $50k over list. One of the other offers was all cash but only at the list price and they also wanted to pick through the appliances and furniture (which were not for sale).

i don't know github. how do i enter my address into the code?

― Heez, Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:28 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

you can't. it's code you have to run yourself every 24 hours. it doesn't have any historic data other than what you get by doing that.

i'd heard about appliance shortages (via chip shortages) but didn't realise it had reached the point that people making all cash offers were buying used!

Kinda glad to have bought six months ago at the same price the houses in the estate were priced at in march 2020 tbh

we'll both be glad until everything is half off in a few months

They make a big point of "it's not just the big cities" but... it kind of is? The big cities and their greater metros? 3-bedroom houses in Bakersfield are going for $350K. Under $300K in Fresno. I just think if they mean "coastal California from the Bay Area to San Diego" they should say so.

grateful that the housing market is so crazy now that my parents were able to sell their house that had been for sale off and on for 7 years (steep driveway that no one wants in Minnesota). I had despaired of them ever escaping/feared a broken hip getting the paper.

xp,

2/3 of californians live in coastal counties, so it's not an insane shorthand.

but everything in that thread appears to apply to the central valley, just with the absolute numbers scaled down.

"In April 2021, Bakersfield home prices were up 17.8% compared to last year, selling for a median price of $314K. On average, homes in Bakersfield sell after 10 days on the market compared to 18 days last year. There were 642 homes sold in April this year, up from 442 last year."

"In April 2021, Fresno home prices were up 20.4% compared to last year, selling for a median price of $325K. On average, homes in Fresno sell after 7 days on the market compared to 17 days last year. There were 465 homes sold in April this year, up from 342 last year."

the median home in those cities will cost $1m in 6 years at the present rate of growth.

i'd heard about appliance shortages (via chip shortages) but didn't realise it had reached the point that people making all cash offers were buying used!

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, May 25, 2021 6:05 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well, one of the things they wanted was the chest freezer--is there still a shortage of those? Also the dishwasher, the washer/dryer, some bedroom sets, and thousands of dollars' worth of outdoor furniture. All for the list price, and they thought a cash offer entitled them to a move in-ready summer home. My mom said, "I couldn't do that to the neighbors."

grateful that the housing market is so crazy now that my parents were able to sell their house that had been for sale off and on for 7 years (steep driveway that no one wants in Minnesota). I had despaired of them ever escaping/feared a broken hip getting the paper.

― bulb after bulb, Tuesday, May 25, 2021 7:05 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ill wind etc!!! Glad that worked out for them.

i think there are still shortages and extended waits for pretty much all household appliances, not just freezers. we had to replace our fridge during lockdown and had a choice of one (1) model that could be delivered in less than a week. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/22/915240713/shortage-of-new-refrigerators-leaves-appliance-shoppers-out-in-the-cold

appliances usually stay with the home in the US though? seems reasonable to assume you're getting the laundry machines/fridge/dishwasher. or is that a regional thing?

P sure my parents were planning to leave the things that wouldn't transport well or that were built into the kitchen cupboards, etc, but a basement chest freezer is pretty mobile! The personal furniture the buyer wanted for free was kind of the last straw, I suspect. Idk about the laundry, now that you mention it? Is that normal?

I used to crow on threads like these about haha, my ZIP code is only $95/SF. Enjoy paying twice my mortgage on half my space!

But now, it's more like, Fuck. I'm going to be stuck here forever.

i think washer and dryer and kitchen appliances usually stay with the house in the US, even if they're not built into the cabinetry. maybe washer and dryer go if they're in the garage or a shed or something.

We got our basement chest freezer with our house! Mind you we have a tiny Toronto bungalow with weird basement stairs; no idea how they got it down there to begin with. When my Grandma sold her bungalow, the new owner didn’t want the freezer, so my aunt had to cut it in pieces to get it out as they’d remodelled the stairs since its purchase.

I’m glad your parents had a quick and profitable sale! I died looking at the listing, what a gorgeous place.

Incredible to think I imagined the possibility of buying a house 5 years ago. It’s up there with winning the lottery now.

caek, I think it is regional. In Virginia you get the appliances.

In Missouri, last I heard, you don't (or not all of them). So even if you're moving every year or two and you only have a Volkswagen or U-Haul, you're expected to be able to move washers and dryers.

In California they don't come with the house unless they're built in. I imagine a lot of sellers don't want to take them so they throw them in to sweeten the deal.

eh, they come with the house in california even if they're not built-in in my experience 🤷🏻‍♂️

that has been my experience as well.

It's not a law, though. Up to the seller.

in germany the seller takes their light bulbs

in Pomona the men come to get your Belgian things

In soviet russia etc

Incredible to think I imagined the possibility of buying a house 5 years ago. It’s up there with winning the lottery now.

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Tuesday, 25 May 2021 20:47 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Opposite progression here in pretty much the same kind of timeline, pandemic/wfh def a factor tho

The low end of the market is brutal here my brother bought a 2/1 Craftsman bungalow style house in 2007 or 2008 for $65k and a flipper just gave him $135k for it, zero upkeep has been done to it in the interim - needs a new bathroom, siding work, at least one new pier, and new AC.

sounds like your brother has good timing

Only in flyover country. He has fucked up twice in Maryland.

i know "location location location" is the most famous cliche on earth or whatever but it's pretty distressing to me what a small proportion of a home's sale price is, like, the value of the materials and labor that make up the house, compared to pure market forces.