Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

birdistheword at 1:13 7 Mar 21

TBH celebrities have been a big part of party politics for decades. (Frank Sinatra and others were big JFK boosters.) And it wasn't just one party, it was especially true after Reagan came into office, which is no surprise given his background. James Stewart, James Cagney, Charlton Heston among others were huge Reagan boosters and I guess among GOP film legends Clint Eastwood may be the last man standing.


like do you genuinely think I'm not aware of this?

I don’t see a need for any broader meaning or context beyond ‘two old rich dads chatting is lame.’

good thing there are approximately a zillion podcasts featuring moderately wealthy non-dads chatting.

Just because there are more Democrat celebrities doesn't make celebrity the province of Democrats. The presidency made Obama a celebrity. Trump's celebrity made him the president.

I was essentially posting this, but you beat me to it.

― birdistheword, Sunday, March 7, 2021 1:14 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

the article beat both of you to it...?

It absolutely does. And I agree it is not smart to lean on celebrity for political purposes. I just thought the way it focused on Springsteen - and it does focus overwhelmingly on Springsteen, pegged to this podcast - was strange. I mean, the headline is "Democrats, Break Up With Bruce Springsteen," as if he's the first person you think of when you think of celebrity democrats. My argument is that he is actually one of the *better* celebrity political allies to have around.

Anyway, what are celebrities, really, if not politicians that people actually like.

Yes it did beat us to it: "Ironically, in 2008 it was Obama himself whom Republicans attacked as being an empty celebrity as opposed to a serious politician. Then, of course, in 2016, the Republican Party began its still ongoing love affair with Donald Trump, one of the purest embodiments of celebrity culture in American history."

Showering elected officials with the type of adulation normally seen with rock stars is a bigger deal for me - I always liked Obama, but I was always put off by the celebrity worship, especially in 2008 when it seemed like most of the country was swooning over him. People I knew who normally weren't engaged in politics would gush over him, and a lot of the inane reasons they gave were big red flags: "I actually don't know where he stands on the issues, but I just love the vibe that's around him!" And a lot of them got disillusioned, and more than a few went for Trump which in certain cases made no logical sense from a policy standpoint but that wasn't what they were voting for when it should have been. Anyway, the celebrity culture in general around politics is asinine, I'll agree with that.

Thanks to the thread about the Beatles, walking on the moon, and cowboys, I was thinking about what a weird and delightful song "This Hard Land" is. The structure is so bizarre and stream-of-consciousness; it's like "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty," if Walter Mitty daydreamed about running off with a dude to be cowboys together.

So it starts out a lot like the Gerard Manley Hopkins sonnet "Thou art indeed just, Lord, if I contend" - the narrator asking God for an explanation of why nothing he does ever works out. Then the narrator starts to tell you his life story - seems he and his sister come from Germantown and they've had a rough life - but just as you're settling in to hear the rest of the story, he gets distracted by a distant tape deck playing "Home on the Range," which sends him off into a completely unexpected cinematic fantasy about running off to be a cowboy and look for treasure with a guy named Frank who is not even a character in the song yet! We are three minutes into the song! We have no idea who Frank is! It's a glorious last-minute swerve for the song to make, from something kind of like "The Promised Land" into a classic "let's run off together" Bruce song that is a.) directed at a guy, b.) very informed by Western movies and c.) very clearly a fantasy that is never going to happen. (There are even little touches of "Born to Run" and "Thunder Road" in it: "Just one kiss from you, my brother/ and we'll ride until we fall" is not that different from "I wanna die with you Wendy on the street tonight in an everlasting kiss.")

Anyway, it's a cool song and I'm glad he put it on the Greatest Hits album so we got to hear it.

A lot to think about, but in the meantime the line "stay hard, stay hungry, stay alive" ranks among his best quotables.

And the "...if you can" that follows it is one of his best asides, additions, qualifiers, whatever you want to call them.

I really like this essay by Jody Rosen about the podcast: it gets at a lot of what I found disappointing about it. https://slate.com/culture/2021/03/obama-springsteen-podcast-review-renegades-spotify.html

She points out, among other things, that these "difficult conversations" really don't seem all that difficult; that Springsteen and Obama seem to agree with each other about everything, and that their conversations tend to stay on the surface of a lot of very broad issues; they rarely get into the kind of details that could raise any real disagreements.

They have a way of gliding past the tricky stuff. In the series’ second episode, “American Skin: Race in the United States,” Springsteen laments that we live in a country where bankers on Wall Street get bailed out while ordinary citizens struggle and suffer. Left unstated is the fact that, in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, President Obama let big banks off the hook, opting not to prosecute executives responsible for the subprime mortgage debacle while prioritizing the preservation of banks’ capital structure over aid to foreclosed homeowners.

I noticed that moment too, but I heard it in a slightly different way; I think that point wasn't unstated so much as it wasn't pushed. Springsteen brings up reparations, Obama explains why he believes in them in theory but not in practice, and Springsteen very briefly pushes back, suggesting that it's unfair to bail out "fat cat bankers on Wall Street" and not help people who have been suffering. Obama gets a little defensive edge in his voice and deflects the question, and Springsteen immediately drops it. A minute later they've found their way back to safe conversational ground and are happily agreeing with each other again.

Um, he, I think.

oh sorry!

She.

Jody Rosen is definitely male.

http://twitter.com/jodyrosen

Y'all are thinking of ex-ilx0r Jody Beth Rosen LaFosse.

Was the podcast promoted with a promise of “difficult conversations“? If so, maybe that refers to talking about painful stuff in their past? I wouldn’t expect Springsteen to probe Obama like an investigative journalist.

You're right, I totally got him confused with Jody Beth Rosen. I'm doing everything today through a fog of migraine so I'm not at my sharpest.

Ugh, I have a bad headache myself, sorry.

Maybe Rosen is mixing up his Obamas?:

The former first lady's podcast teaches listeners to "open up new conversations – and hard conversations – with the people who matter most to them." Topics of discussion include sibling relationships, raising children, girlfriends, women's health, mentorship and marriage.

Is the Jody Rosen I just saw in my local bookshop/music paper/Private Eye the same as ILX's Jody Beth Rosen?

Headaches are the worst. Sorry to hear you have one too.

xp I'm pretty sure it's being promoted as difficult conversations about race - like, they're modeling for us how to come together despite our differences and dig into the complex issues facing us today as Americans.

Hmm I’m not. I met another music writer named Jody Rosen who was not ilxor Jody nor a male.

xp The description for Ep. 2 refers to “the uncomfortable conversations we need to have” (about race).

Panel discussion from yesterday featuring Bruce, Nona Hendryx, Lauren Oakley, Danny Alexander, and Eric Schumacher-Rasmussen (part of the ongoing series of panels paying tribute to Dave Marsh):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlzthgTFGlU

Wait, I thought I saw Dion in there!

Nona is so cool.

I saw her perform once at Central Park Summerstage. She was fantastic

Weird thing was not mentioning that Patti LaBelle & the Bluebell(e)s aren’t even on the recording of “I Sold My Heart to the Junkman” that has their name on it.

The/her

Or are they on it? Never got the story straight.

Seems there were multiple versions

This is more interesting than I expected it to be. Nice to see Bruce so animated.

Bruce was just presented with the Woody Guthrie prize, played some songs for the prize presentation livestream, and mentioned in passing that he's got a new record coming out soon, "set mostly in the West." I can't find a video of the whole thing but here he is doing "Deportee."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4KXBzmNlmI

it kind of bothers me that he plays a Takamine

That always seems to be his go-to live acoustic, even though he uses different ones in the studio. I've noticed lots of other marquee names using them live, too. No idea why, it's not like Bruce has an endorsement deal.

it kind of bothers me that he plays a Takamine

I know nothing at all about guitars; can you explain why it bothers you?

According to Wikipedia: "Musicians closely associated with Takamine include Glenn Frey, The Eagles, Mike Rutherford, Garth Brooks, The Wiggles, Raffi, Jon Bon Jovi, John Jorgenson, Kayla Daly, Bruce Springsteen, Nancy Wilson, Lee Brice, Blake Shelton, Lance Allen, Jake Allen, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Kenny Chesney, Troy Cassar-Daley, John Michael Montgomery, Kendall Schmidt and Toby Keith." So pretty popular with American recording artists.

In his memoir, when he tells the story about throwing a guitar at Jon Landau on the Born in the USA tour, he specifies that it was a Takamine.

First time I heard/heard of/saw anyone play a Takamine was Pete Townshend on the 1989 "The Who On Ice" (as he called it) tour. It sounded awful, all high-end brittleness with no resonance whatsoever, but that may have been more down to whatever the pickup/amplification situation was than the guitar itself. But he stuck to a Gibson J-200 on all subsequent Who tours.

When I was doing research into acoustic guitars a couple of years back I came across some mention that the Sundays used a Takamine for most of their first album, and also Midnight Oil for Diesel and Dust. There are a bunch of Takamines from the 70s that are knock off Martins, lawsuit guitars.

Lily Dale
I just don't love the brand, kind of dorky to me, it's probably a great guitar but just image wise I'd prefer Bruce with an old vintage Gibson or Guild not a a new one with onboard electronics

just an aesthetic thing

Steve Cropper was asked why he plays Peaveys and not vintage Teles; he said, “It’s kind of like once I drove a Ferrari, I never went back to a Chevrolet.” Maybe Bruce feels similarly wrt Takamines vs. an old Gibson.

a lot of it too i'm sure is just not wanting to bring some super expensive vintage guitar out on the road

also, anytime you see any artist of note playing a new guitar (not vintage ones in their collection) you can probably assume they have an endorsement deal with the manufacturer

I thought this was interesting:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/how-takamine-acoustics-became-the-hardest-working-guitars-in-music

How often does Neil Young play Hank Williams's original guitar when he tours? I remember watching Heart of Gold and thinking, "man, if I had that guitar, it would give me too much anxiety to take it on the road with me."

Wait, what?

a lot of it too i'm sure is just not wanting to bring some super expensive vintage guitar out on the road

You definitely wouldn't want to fling a super expensive vintage guitar at your manager's head. Much better to have something new and shiny around when the guitar-flinging mood hits.

Iirc Neil takes it out on every tour!

Neil takes enough vintage gear on the road he probably has some private security force mixed in with the Roadies protecting it.