woody allen

not the best metaphor

why do people still to do this for free, what is the investment here

and why do people think it’s funny to make jokes about / around it

the videos of Dylan and the audio tapes of the calls with Allen (I suspect there are more to come) are new, so it is untrue that there is nothing new in this series. These have never been aired before. I find it very difficult to believe anyone could listen to these and come away with the belief that Farrow is making any of this up or manipulating things. It's very much the other way around. Look if you prefer to believe Farrow is a master manipulator and Allen, who very obviously fucked Soon Yi as a minor while still in High School, is not, then....fine, but I question your judgement.

I hope this is finally the end of him

It's not even the end of Woody Allen movies being available to stream via HBO, so far.

Miss Morbs, but will not miss his stanning for Woody.

Farrow's own fucked-upness has little to do with the case at hand. It looks like she ran a house like a circus.

Interesting..

All you really need to know about the new Woody Allen “documentary” on HBO is it was made by the same folks who gave us @IAmJaneDoeFilm & The Hunting Ground, 2 of the most blatantly dishonest pseudo-docs ever seen https://t.co/AjA0dEWodD

— Elizabeth Nolan Brown (@ENBrown) February 24, 2021

I’m not watching the documentary which I’m sure is as damning as described but...

why do we keep having to wait for these documentaries in order to *really believe* widely available accounts about a man’s behaviour? almost invariably long after their careers have peaked? and it’s never enough- they will still have defenders and enablers, they will continue to make money, they will continue to do violence

that’s some right wing spiked style website is it not. I’m assuming the expression of interest is sarcasm

Tim Montgomerie's website to be accurate.

I don't know much about those two documentaries but I can't find any published criticism of I Am Jane Doe, which is about backpage.com; I'm going to assume the person who posted that is a sex work advocate, which is fine, and I understand the complications of that law and how its been misused and punished honest sex workers, but that doesn't mean that sex trafficking doesn't happen.

she works for a "nonprofit group promoting the values & voices of #libertarian #feminism Yellow heartanti-sexism, anti-statism, pro-markets" yeah, no thanks

love 2 be pro markets

this is a minefield because as soon as the t-word is invoked the cops and borders come in which makes things worse for everyone except the cops and (frequently) the traffickers but that group sounds extremely gross and interested for all the wrong reasons

Well this made me google UnHerd, had previously thought that with that dumb a name it had to be a medium-style platform, turns out nope, it's an ex-torygraph journo doing the same old "push back against herd mentality" scam that Spiked, Quilette, etc. specialize in. You wouldn't think there's such a huge market of ppl who truly believe the likes of Julie Bindel and Giles Fraser are disenfranchised, but alas...

that crowd certainly punches above its weight in securing donations

There are no Woody Allen films in the Morbs ballot I compiled for the upcoming Morbsies film poll.

feels like the Bill Cosby thing was some sort of great awakening with regards to all this, it's crazy in retrospect how people like Woody Allen, R. Kelly, and Michael Jackson were basically allowed to continue their careers undeterred whereas now Louis CK essentially lost everything on a far lesser scandal, as though the greater public just kind of realized overnight that celebrities really do not deserve the benefit of the doubt & that having "too much to lose" apparently isn't much of a deterrent

he got a standing ovation on his return to comedy, he hardly lost everything

so many celebrities are still going strong in spite of etc

multiple US presidents have been called out with little or no effect on their careers

any greater public whose minds have been changed is a relatively small and fickle one

louis ck also kept lying about what happened after his return. & they all got serious criticism at around the same time.

the videos of Dylan and the audio tapes of the calls with Allen (I suspect there are more to come) are new, so it is untrue that there is nothing new in this series.

i mean there's no new information. you could have read dylan's account 20 years ago, or more. if youre in the business of doubting the allegations then seeing the tape shouldn't move the dial too much.

ok "everything" is too strong a word but still. he lost a very lucrative Netflix deal, all his stuff got pulled from the big streaming platforms, his show got cancelled, he can't perform at any of the big clubs anymore and if he does there's a huge backlash. that's a pretty far cry from MJ or Woody continuing to be high-profile celebs that everyone falls over themselves to work with.

btw obviously it wasn't *just* Cosby, tons of work & a lot of writing was done by a lot of great activists but I guess if there was one celebrity where irrefutable evidence of being a terrible sex pest could actually change the way culture at large thinks, that would be the one

he can't perform at any of the big clubs anymore and if he does there's a huge backlash against audience members who complain

for real, dude is selling out shows and making "ain't i a lil stinker" jokes about it to adoring crowds

I'm sure that Jordan's "cancel-culture" hearings will discuss at length the sad fate of Al Franken.

idk what people here think deserved to happen to Louie just saying I remember a year where R. Kelly was literally on video peeing on an underage girl and still managed to get "Ignition" into heavy rotation everywhere, only to completely rehabilitate his image as an eccentric genius/weirdo with "Trapped in the Closet" a couple years later. it does not appear we live in that society anymore. so stuff like this and the new MJ documentary, even if it's not necessarily "anything new" is still significant since the lens we view this through is different and it takes some sort of event to get this back in the headlines. if R. Kelly had not gotten caught doing more abusive shit he'd still be headlining the Pitchfork festival today

looking at his website, CK sells out 2000-3000 seaters still

i agree with frogbs. the culture has changed.

so CK is not on TV anymore but he's still operating within the top 1% of all comedians

this documentary will change the narrative on woody.

before watching this, my position was to stay away from the dylan accusations, which were unprovable, the fact that he seduced the teenage daughter of his longtime partner -- a young person he had helped raise -- was revolting enough. however, the story they put forward about his obsessive and controlling relationship with dylan was convincing and disturbing. i am not a psychoanalyst, but his behavior toward dylan seems to precede and probably helps explain his later affair with her older sister. (please don't post this to the dr. treeship thread).

the moses farrow piece everyone shares is weird too. not to blame moses -- who is a victim too in some ways, if nothing else of having a father who refuses to acknowledge boundaries -- but what kind of person thinks it's ok for their father to marry their sister?

the fact that CK is selling 2000-3000 tickets is not particularly impressive given that he was the most successful and arguably the most talented comedian since Chappelle. his revenue now is probably like 5% what it was before. had this happened in the 90s it would've been just a temporary embarrassment and maybe even a publicity boost - like, what exactly happened to Seinfeld when it was revealed that he was dating a 17 year old?

they're different things, though. the ck accusation is viscerally disgusting. nobody likes someone who exposes themselves to unsuspecting women.

but idk why i brought that up. r. kelly -- while seemingly a much more evil person than ck -- is the better comparison

agree hard with treeship re: allen. the guy was sent to a therapist because of his obsessive behavior around Dylan and the recommendation was made that he not be left alone with her. This isn't even in dispute. That's...not normal.

the Soon Yi stuff, which afaict isn't really in dispute in any meaningful way, is far more than enough to cancel him for life

the guy was sent to a therapist because of his obsessive behavior around Dylan and the recommendation was made that he not be left alone with her. This isn't even in dispute.

(the framing of this is disputed ftr)

(obv it's alarming from a wide variety of directions that a seven-year-old already had their own therapist)

I remember being 11 years old and seeing that story poked fun of on basically every Comedy Central show; I assumed it was false because there was no way a person who did something like that would still be allowed to make movies

Louis CK and Allen/Cosby and to an extent R.Kelly have wildly different audiences, if only in terms of age, and that obviously each audience is going to react differently to the crimes.

what is it about auteur comedians with carefully cultivated, "relatable" personae? CK was the 21st century woody allen. cosby was a little different, but he was still had a kind of public persona that made the accusations really feel hard to believe

I sure related to Allen, for a long time in my life, I took the Farrow letter in the NY Times to realize the amount of misogyny I had cultivated myself.

I agree with Left that there is something tragic about needing an extra layer of voyeurism, which is what those documentaries seems to be, for some people to accept that these men are monsters. Like we are judges and we are given more evidence in the form of the entertainment and only then we can decide if yes or no the victim was right to open up.

I think Cosby was way more shocking, he was like America's dad for people in the 80s when I was watching the Cosby Show...Allen and CK were both weird and edgy at times, and all full of hang ups about sex and women (in their work). I mean jfc Allen made Manhattan and there was an episode of Louie that revolved around Louie sexually assaulting a woman.

The Cosby Show really portrayed a healthy marriage with a healthy sex life between two age appropriate adults

i related to allen a lot as a teen. i outgrew his films by the time i got to college, but they definitely formed my sense of myself as someone who was "intellectual," who could namedrop philosophers and russian authors, and who wanted to live, someday, in new york (where else?). i honestly wonder what kind of person i would be today if i didn't learn, from allen's movies and other movies, to look down on my suburban upbringing and identify with, idk, some ad-hoc vision of upper class new york bohemia, a place where people were droll and ironic and self-referential and all the rest

you are paying an awful lot of rent to emulate a creep.

i don't live there anymore. i can still see the skyline from where i am sitting though.

faintly

I'm joking Treeship, NYC's allure had the same effect on me for a long time and for similar reasons. I know exactly what you are talking about.

But yeah I don't understand what is the purpose of those documentaries other than to serve strange instincts. Are they truly useful as a tool to better understand rape culture?