The BBC

Fizzles: I think there is a widespread convenient popular history that 'WWII was fighting evil Nazis and their Holocaust', and also 'Civil War was fighting evil slavery'.

I think we can agree that reality was more complex than that.

That might mean that these moral factors (all too easy to agree on now) were in reality less important than Realpolitik (this would be unsurprising by definition), self-interest, or than economic factors.

(It seems accurate enough to say that Britain defending *itself* from Nazi invasion and rule was a good cause, let alone any other moral cause. So that seems an instance of self-interest and morality coinciding.)

If you follow the argument that 'actually it was about self-interest, economics, etc' ('it's the economy, stupid!'), then I am broadly prepared to assume that this is quite likely to be correct.

But:

1: A complex and accurate view can probably afford to be overdetermined, ie: including multiple factors and not having to choose entirely between one and another. (Many *were* appalled by Nazism during the 1930s.)

2: What's odder is that the same people don't seem to apply the same principles to the two wars. I have recently seen socialists argue *against* the idea that the Civil War was a matter of economics and Realpolitik. It seems as though, in *that* particular case, the conservative arguments are economistic and the progressives are the ones who say 'No, it was a moral war against slavery!'.

I find this discrepancy slightly confusing.

You (Fizzles, or perhaps anyone) can see why I raised the comparison.

Without commenting on the political realities, you have to account for the fact that post-Civil War a huge economic and cultural force sprung up whose only mission was to cast the South as having been totally in the right. Suggesting the war wasn't about slavery but TAXES (the greatest evil yer average joe can think of) obviously a great strategy for that.

Fans of the Third Reich less succesful with this line of argument because of course they would add the prefix Jewish to "it was about money".

Britain defending *itself* from Nazi aggression would be some value of a good or at least understandable cause. Britain refusing to make peace with Nazi Germany because Churchill did not want to lose any part of the Empire (and not out of abstract concerns for human rights, protecting the Jewish victims of Nazism or belief in the inviolable sovereignty of none British states) seems like a different measure of "good" to me even tho sure the actual causes of war were probably more tangled.

Don't try telling Ian Austin that Channel Islands Jews got handed over to the Nazis by British police to be deported straight to Auschwitz. Even the great Michael Rosen was struggling to explain that fact to the deluded moron.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/mar/17/bbc-to-move-many-top-news-jobs-to-leeds-sources-say

as usual, spoilers for tomorrow's internal meeting in the guardian the day before.

as it says in the article, ch4 did this recently too, and half of them took redundancy rather than move.

You know what it's like these days, you're not allowed to joke about anything.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-breakfast-union-jack-flag-b925080.html

He stares at one while he's wanking into the other. https://t.co/PM2ojbp5se

— Sirius Münleit (@LittlShyningMan) March 19, 2021

Just little baby footsteps toward fascism, or liberty and freedom as it's soon to be known

Why stop at baby steps?

Of course if people are not proud to be British, or of our flag or Queen, they don’t have to live in the U.K. Perhaps they should move to another country they prefer?

— Lia Nici (@lia_nici) March 18, 2021

MP for Grimsby.

The Union Flag is a symbol of liberty and freedom? Not even Robert Jenrick believes that.

I saw someone complaining yesterday about the continuing Barnettification of Woman's Hour and was saying she doesn't want to hear mostly interviews with men on the topic of male violence.

Something genuinely frightening is happening and the BBC needs to be challenged at every step not to kowtow to the wrong side

Telegraph writers now demanding patriotic loyalty test as condition of BBC employment (and dismantling of BBC if this is not done). Totalitarianism, anyone?https://t.co/zeZxQSV0WR

— Chris Bertram (@crookedfootball) March 20, 2021

The Torygraph will be pleased to notice that bbc bosses won't tolerate their staff gently mocking the current flag-shagging mania of Tory ministers and the opposition. Nor will they tolerate dangerous lefty subversive extremists like Huw Edwards!

Having a giggle about Tory ministers who have been told to rustle up a flag from somewhere whenever there's a camera pointed at them is despising your own country? LOL.

There have now been 5 straight days and nights of Loyalist violence in Northern Ireland, so why isn't this leading the news agenda in Britain? (There's obviously been some coverage, including this by the BBC's @EmmaVardyTV) pic.twitter.com/JPINFOgTNf

— Ian Fraser (@Ian_Fraser) April 6, 2021

I haven't seen nor heard that much coverage of this on the bbc news at all tbh

but apparently even the little bit of bbc coverage is shit

I've seen a bit but it does put the coverage of the anti-policing bill into perspective - a bit too much fucking perspective, to paraphrase Nigel Tufnell. Anyway, the British media have been doing their utmost to avoid reporting on Northern Ireland for 50-odd years, why change now?

It is incredible, in a way, that these are in part protests against the effects of ... wait for it ... Brexit.

Imagine the FBPE people using petrol bombs on Piccadilly!

their blue face-paint tinted passion for the EU was the flame and their oh so twee and humorous pro-EU banner slogans were the bombs!

The hardcore Unionists were the people in NI who voted Brexit!

The fact is this particular community in Ireland (and Scotland) invented 'pwning the libs' - or just pwning in general - and have been doing it for hundreds of years.

The community representatives openly mocked and rejected the all-Ireland working group’s attempts to meet and work together cordially on this.

even while Boris was still reliant on the DUP to prop up the tories it was still pretty clear that he was going to fuck them over on border issues. lol! Enjoy your Festival of Brexit in 2022 lads.

And it should have been clear to them to, and I'm sure it was, God knows they've been fucked over by British politicians often enough, but trying to understand the mindset of that lot is a thankless task.

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster has criticised the Irish government's all-island forum on Brexit.

Mrs Foster described it as a "grandstanding exercise" and said she had better things to do than be a "lone voice among remoaners".
She has already declined an invite to attend next week's "civic dialogue" event in Dublin.

The forum was established in the wake of the EU referendum result.
"It's a complete grandstanding exercise," said Mrs Foster.
"It will be full of people who quite frankly haven't accepted the referendum result going down to talk about how dreadful it is and how awful it is.
"Mark my words that's exactly what will happen at the grandstanding forum that will come about.
"I'm not going to be a part of that. I am in this to do real business and to have outcomes, not to sit around talking about how dreadful it is."
Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny has said the event will facilitate an all-Ireland conversation among the business community, wider civic society and politicians.

Asked if it would be valuable to put the argument in favour of Brexit to forum delegates, Mrs Foster replied: "To be a lone voice amongst a whole lot of remoaners?
"No thank you - I have better things to do with my time."

The scenes in Northern Ireland have been entirely predictable—and predicted—since 2019. At the heart of the matter is a reality few want to admit: the protocol is imbalanced, implementing, in effect, the nationalist solution to the Brexit border trilemma. https://t.co/ZpEpsj8q6Y

— Tom McTague (@TomMcTague) April 6, 2021

Like seriously, fucking revisionism, I know we all remember that December 2017 clusterfuck.

Nobody listened to Loyalists?

How did that notion get traction?

Loyalists voted DUP. The British PM listened to the representatives of Loyalists - so much so that the British PM was pulled put of a meeting by the DUP - and forced to drop her plans to avoid the Irish sea border. pic.twitter.com/9yv8PMG1AW

— Colm Ó Dóghair (@ColmDore) April 6, 2021

On BBC radio on Wednesday morning, Foster said Sinn Féin was responsible for the unrest. Opposition parties say the tension resulted from Foster’s DUP’s support for the Northern Ireland Protocol in the Brexit deal..

she's even worse than Boris at owning the results of her own appalling leadership choices.

Is that A. Foster statement from now?

She's saying that at the same time that Unionist are protesting (by burning police cars, etc) against the effects of Brexit?

it's from this morning's Today on R4

I'm also frankly surprised to be reminded that Enda Kenny is Taoiseach again (or still). I can't keep up with these rotating characters. Sinn Féin won an national election about a year ago, didn't they, but have been completely shut out of power ever since?

Maybe she should "put the argument in favour of Brexit" to her own "community"? Preferably by going out to address them in the middle of a riot.

Almost expecting to see Van Morrison popping up chucking a molotov at a police van.

Kenny is not Taoiseach, pinefox. That quote is from 2016

We have a fella called Micheál Martin in the job now, although he's not entirely convinced of the fact himself

I'm also frankly surprised to be reminded that Enda Kenny is Taoiseach again (or still). I can't keep up with these rotating characters. Sinn Féin won an national election about a year ago, didn't they, but have been completely shut out of power ever since?

Thanks Number None, I'd heard of Martin, and was confused about Kenny as you can see, and the idea that Foster's statement was from today. I can remember some daft things Kenny said in the past.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_one_relax

👀

ah, the fabled service E. i was wondering what the r was for in the logo but it's right there in the url.

How did the BBC get hold of all my MiniDiscs?

Wait, is this really a whole channel of found sound or something? At the moment it sounds like tropical birds squawking in a forest.

Are they playing the sound of the Eurostar passing through Ashford International later?

That is what’s known as the “barker” and no, it’s merely a piece of placeholder audio that’s there between the time that the transmission chain is set up and the schedule properly begins. The actual programming will be a mix of music and speech, more along the lines of this sort of thing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09668p5

I experienced something like this, it must have been over 20 years ago, when - was it XFM, or something? was set up, and I would turn the radio dial and just find birdsong, which I liked, because the programming didn't start for months. I think even taped some of the birdsong.

"Classic FM launched in September 1992, but in the preceeding months, Howard uses the birdsong recordings to test the transmitter network. Millions of listeners heard the continuous broadcast of birdsong, interrupted every 30 minutes by the required statutory announcements, also voiced by Howard. National newspapers began carrying stories about the mysterious sound of birds as media pundits and journalists scrambled to figure out what the real sound of Classic FM was going to be."

there was another channel recently.

2009?
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2009/jun/03/birdsong-radio-digital-station

as TH says barker channels are usual before the full playout transmission is set up. it’s also useful for basic end to end testing. i’m curious because a team i’ve just inherited is setting up a barker channel next week and now i want to know what sounds they’re using.

Koogs, it must indeed have been Classic FM. Alarmingly long ago!

EXC: Robbie Gibb, Theresa May's ex-director of comms, is joining the BBC Board. A critic of BBC bias. Will be their England representative.

He tells me: “The Corporation has a big job to reform and make sure it once again becomes the gold standard for broadcasting impartiality"

— Ben Riley-Smith (@benrileysmith) April 29, 2021

He seems nice

they’re not sending their best really are they

Before that he had a 25-year career with the Beeb, including as editor of Daily Politics and head of BBC Westminster.