no boys allowed in the room!!!!

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And yes, I do think the disparity between “how cis men are raised to believe their middle / old age is gonna look like” and how “people raised as women are taught to believe their middle / old age will look like” DOES contribute to the stuff that Sarahell was talking about.

And that I *would* like to talk about.

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 12:35 (two months ago) link

It is ableist to hold autistic people to these highly gendered neurological standards around the management of other people’s emotions.

Just marking this down for the next time someone in another thread says something that you take to be about you and you come in here to complain about literally decades-old ilx beef again. And yet again, dishonest all the way down, wow wow wow.

scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Sunday, 21 February 2021 12:35 (two months ago) link

To be clear, I’m sorry someone’s wife died of cancer. That’s awful.

As far as I know, he’s never read or posted in this thread. I don’t see how these discussions connect. Sarahell moves the conversation to a different topic!

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 12:37 (two months ago) link

About as ungracious as you’d expect. Incredible how everyone else was able to see how it came across and acted accordingly, whereas you doubled down, mocked me (in some fairly misogynistic terms, no less) for even bringing it up, and now finally have squeezed about the most terrible excuse for an apology that you can bear now that it’s become clear that you’re alone on this. It’s such an indictment of ilx that you haven’t hit twenty yet.

scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Sunday, 21 February 2021 12:41 (two months ago) link

Having known and interacted with Sarahell for a long time, her action of “there’s a grieving widower in here, I’m going to take this conversation about gender to another thread” absolutely 100% WAS an act of consideration and being sympathetic.

It’s *bizarre* to me that anyone could read that act of consideration as inconsiderate or hostile.

It seems to me, to be about the complainers’ hostile views towards the poster(s), rather than anything she said it did.

We need to talk, again and again, about he gendered expectations of emotional labour. How this emotional labour of “anticipating and managing the emotional needs and reactions of other people, and always putting them before their own” is something disproportionately placed on people raised/treated as women.

Maybe because of my autism, maybe because of my unconventional upbringing, I honestly did not realise that this was something expected of me/women until I was in my late 30s. It’s one of those aspects of ~performing womanhood~ that I absolutely suck at because: autism - and I really chafe at the idea it is only *expected* of “Women” (cis men who can do it, will be rewarded for it, as the *skill* of emotional intelligence.) It’s OK for cis men to put their needs and emotions first. But if “women” don’t do it - RAGE!

It wasn’t until I was in my 40s, and in therapy, that I connected the ragestorms and clusterfucks of people being intensely angry at me for reasons I could not figure out - with this “transgression”. I had failed to anticipate someone else’s needs or manage their unexpected emotions; I had put my own needs first.

The weirdest thing was, that the biggest explosions of anger at my failure to perform this expected emotional labour were NOT actually from the men who tried to throttle me, or pulled over CD shelves on top of me, or threatened me and tried to physically hurt or discipline me.

It’s similar to the way that the biggest explosions of rage and hatred about female fat don’t come from angry men - they come from thin women who are FURIOUS that they have spent their entire lives hungry, on diets, and how dare we SHIRK our female obligation to be attractive by being so unapologetically fat while they work so hard at it.

It’s the same with these explosions of RAGE that I cannot (or as they have it, WILL not) perform this gendered emotional labour. The RAGE is about their fury and frustration and anger that *they* feel about having to do it, when here am I in my unapologetic autistic transmasculinity saying “this gendered labour is unfairly distributed. No one should have to regulate other people’s emotions as much as women are expected to do.”

This anger isn’t about me refusing / being unable to (delete as to your level of ableism) - it’s about their own resentment at still forcing themselves to. Hence why it’s Sarahell or me that end up as the punching bags for this rage. Other people’s rage is... not my job to manage.

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 14:07 (two months ago) link

Absolutely fuck this. Fuck this blasé attitude about real people who we really care about. FUCK YOU. Your refusal to care about other people has NOTHING to do with rejecting patriarchal standards and everything to do with the fact that you don't care about other people and can't be bothered to.

That's my fucking FRIEND. Fuck off with your idea that people getting upset are in service to the patriarchy. Funnily enough, I consider sarahell my friend also, and I STILL got upset. It isn't about ilx beef, it's about CARING ABOUT PEOPLE. If other people's rage is not your job to manage, then don't even think about attempting to manage HOW MUCH RAGE I AM EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. FUCK OFF.

emil.y, Sunday, 21 February 2021 14:16 (two months ago) link

I’d settle for them managing their own shoddy behaviour, but all they ever have in the tank is “no u” and “actually here’s why my terrible behaviour is your fault. It’s unacceptable.

scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Sunday, 21 February 2021 14:20 (two months ago) link

I'm angry, too. I've always been angry at how everyone excuses Branwell's behavior, but I always just held my tongue and left any thread that they were in. Now I can speak my piece.

I'm neuroatypical (probably autistic, but I've never been diagnosed. I was diagnosed as mentally ill.), non-binary, and was bullied pretty heavily when younger. We are painfully similar people. I was clueless when I was younger, and I probably hurt some people. The difference? I was willing to admit that I was wrong sometimes. My self-centeredness and selfishness has been a burden that I fight against every hour of my life. I don't seek out social issues to validate my self-image, I seek them out to try to change things. Also, "acting like a teenager," in rural Floridian underclass terms, means that you drink and heavily and get arrested all of the time. I'm crying in RL right now and getting incoherent, so I'll say
one more thing. Go away. Please go away. Stop seagulling us, by which I mean swooping down periodically, shitting on everything, and leaving. You are as bad as Dom ever was.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 21 February 2021 16:29 (two months ago) link

I apologise when I have done something wrong. The idea that I should have to apologise for the absurd fantasies that people build up around their intensely negative interpretations of what I say?

Nah, mate. Not on.

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 17:00 (two months ago) link

Can we go back to the conversation we were having?

Because it’s not me that shits up threads at the moment - it’s people’s bizarre inability to ignore me or mute me rather than carry on feuding like this.

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 17:02 (two months ago) link

Dom used to go around saying things like “sometimes I fantasise about punching women in the face”.

I say things like “cisheteropatriarvhy oppresses ‘men’ and ‘not men’ in different and unequal ways’.

These are 100% exactly the same thing!!!!! Are you kidding me?

mysterious nonbinary sea creature (Branwell with an N), Sunday, 21 February 2021 17:27 (two months ago) link

are you now Whitney G Weingarten?

sarahell, Monday, 22 February 2021 03:05 (two months ago) link

omgggggggg!!! lol

sarahell, Monday, 22 February 2021 03:50 (two months ago) link

two months pass...

So I sometimes get a one or two big hormonal zits around my period but I just got my period midway between my two vax shots and JESUS CHRIST my chin/jaw are an absolute mess, like, just the worst acne I’ve ever had. Anyone else having hormonal issues after their vax?

just1n3, Thursday, 6 May 2021 02:39 (five days ago) link

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