It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

so can we move on to my old question as to why people think this is the greatest hip-hop album of all time? cuz, y'know, it's not.

You've got Chuck's politically / socially / historically conscious lyrics, bolstered by samples of black-power-themed oration; you've got the chopped and shredded and layered JB, funk and soul samples pushing the boundaries of the SP1200 as a compositional tool (and, as noted above, an explicit connection to a source-body of music that had fallen into relative obscurity at that point); plus there was Flav clowing on the sterotypes and realities of black performance simultaneously--his persona as complementary and contradictory to Chuck's kinda sealed the breadth complexity of what PE represented.

All these things were percolating in hip-hip at the time, and with Nation of Millions are presented at arguably the most fully-realized, well-formed degree up until then. I'm not suprised that the result wasn't emulated too much--who else could assemble such a complex package by design? Who would want to? PE were a group that was canonical not because they created a model or template for others to work with, but because they created something (of which music was just a part) that perfectly expressed and tied together what was happening at a particular moment in time.

Whether their work holds up for you now, particularly if you weren't following them back when Nation was released, is a different matter--but I think it still validates their inclusion in some kind of canon.

Greatest hip-hop album all time argument more to do with history than the music (not to say I still won't put Nations and 3 Feet High 1-2 on my list)

(didn't read any posts since Jess's but I will now)

Because people, musicians, especially hip-hop musicians, want to BE THEMSELVES.

Yeah, well I recall that was for MC's--PE's rating as a total package has to be higher cause there was no love for Eric B.'s turntable skills back in those days (and probaly even less since!)

i dunno really know what my favorite is. in a pinch it'd be fear..., but it might actually be illmatic or 36 chambers.

oops, what do you disagree with? I'm curious.

*the one-MC-with-a-lot-to-say/another-hype-guy-rowdy-MC dynamic
*among the first to use disonance and harsh overtones in their beats
*"conspiracy theory" obsessed lyrics

oops fairly OTM there. Stankonia is Outkast's 'on top of the world' album though.

The "funny" thing about Professor Griff is that his solo album was produced by a white friend of mine.

Has anyone responded to this claim from the original post yet? I'm not sure I agree...supporting evidence?

I was thinking of *intentionally* comic jester figures...

For those who lack
The odds are stacked
The one who makes the money is white not black
You might not believe it but it is like that

The first thing you noticed about the song was that no one had ever said things like that in a rap. The second thing was how instantly addictive the phrasing was. The first three lines could be Run-DMC or the Beasties. The fourth line is pure jazz.

It's that combo that makes Chuck swings so hard--much harder than the "great MCs" in my opinion. My first reaction to Nation was that it was too noisy to hear the drums. But then I realized Chuck was the drum.

In fact, I think the fall-off on Black Planet isn't the Bomb Squad but Chuck. Even on the last classic single, the remix of "Brothers Gonna Work It Out," he kinda sounds like he's catching up with the sonics rather than dominating them. "Refuse to lose" is the great exception. I knew a guy who went around repeating that opening over and over again...