quiddities and agonies of the ruling class - a rolling new york times thread

my old neighborhood had a segway store right next to the dog bakery

that's also exactly where i'd expect to see a segway in the uk. dork central.

― caek, Friday, July 10, 2009 12:20 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

loooool

right next to the dog bakery

How cruel!

Oh please.

And there was a follow-up.

I think that's a pretty good article actually, for what it is

what didnt you like abt it ned?

i wonder if their letters editor would describe this thread as "populist backlash"? i mean seriously, they must know, right?

It is -- refreshing amount of unrestrained skepticism and does an excellent job of letting the people hang themselves with their own rope.

(xpost)

Less disliking the article than some of the...shall we say 'characters' involved, and the assumptions on the part of their clientele. However two to one says that the skeptical tone of this article exists only because the economic crunch -- a year ago this would have been nothing but glowing profiles. Agonies of the ruling class indeed.

"Hey wait we can't really afford this any more...you think they might have been lying to us?"

was hoping for more college interview fashion advice tbh

“It’s annoying when people complain about the money,” the Vermont-based counselor, Michele Hernandez, said. “I’m at the top of my field. Do people economize when they have a brain tumor and are looking for a neurosurgeon? If you want to go with someone cheaper, or chance it, don’t hire me.”

When people say stuff like this, you don't really have to write anything.

x-post -- Seersuckers, Elmo, never forget the seersuckers.

You're probably right Ned that it's just a sign-o-the-times, but I'm still really pleased to see an article about this sort of thing that doesn't take the "Some people say... but others say..." pussyfootin approach.

"applying volumizing mascara to underarm hair is the biggest grooming trend for smith college applicants this year"

a year ago this would have been nothing but glowing profiles. Agonies of the ruling class indeed.

well, maybe, maybe not. i think this thread is entertaining and a lot of the stories cited are juicy targets, but in the interests of fairness this kind of story is hardly the only thing the nyt does. you could do a whole alternative thread about all of its coverage of poverty, health care, immigrants, the housing crisis and the general economics of the working- and middle-classes -- all of which make up a much bigger chunk of its coverage than the rich-people fluff. (without even getting into all the foreign coverage.)

so, you know, capn-save-a-gray-lady and all, but ... babies, bathwater, etc.

should really be "a rolling new york times STYLE SECTION thread"

style section is the most disgusting savage imo

RE section can be pretty savage but in a more subtle way. Definitely corrupt.

yeah it's mostly a style phenomenon, with occasional assist from the magazine and real estate.

1 - the NY Times coverage of health care is a joke.
2 - its coverage of poverty is mainly confined to the Metro section, whose greatness has scarcely dimmed over the eyars
3 - there is some OK-to-good stuff on immigration, though a weird lack of follow-up
4 - housing crisis involves gigantic pools of money + homebuyer angst = ding ding ding ding
5 - general economics of working and middle classes: again this is almost exclusively a metro section phenomenon

perhaps i am a little harsh but i don't think it's by much

What's the deal with all of these "cruel story of (NYTimes-staff) youth" articles that have been populating the Sunday magazine?. First, we get David Carr and his crack addiction, then Daphne Merkin's journey through darkness, now it's Frank Bruni and his childhood adventures with bulimia. I can't wait to find out who received electro-shock therapy at Bellevue for chronic masturbation.

aging journalists jumping ship from the quickly-sinking newspaper industry and writing harrowing hopeful-bestseller memoirs aided by prominent placement in the nyt mag?

I think you're right, and I think I'd better get on the dependency-bandwagon right quick, if I really want a viable Plan B!

“It’s annoying when people complain about the money,” the Vermont-based counselor, Michele Hernandez, said. “I’m at the top of my field. Do people economize when they have a brain tumor and are looking for a neurosurgeon? If you want to go with someone cheaper, or chance it, don’t hire me.”

I kinda have sympathy for this, actually? Given that anyone who's prepared to spend thousands of dollars on college-entry counseling is presumably not exactly in a position to be super-exploited about it, and is making that decision competitively, and probably has the funds to send their child to a pretty decent school even without the edge of counseling? I'd care a lot more about the rates and quality of the people giving advice to those who really need it, like those who are the first in their families to even apply to college, low-income people for whom the process is more foreign and opaque, etc.

I think I might agree with you, nabisco, though the idea that such bourgeois counselors exist is still totally shocking, and in some ways disgusting, to me. But if someone wants to be all rich and disgusting, then whatever, they're gonna do it anyway.

haha actually I can't help thinking about the basic economics and cost-opportunity of it, like: if you can make more than $15,000 in the time it'd take you, as a normal parent, to help your kid apply to college, it just plain makes sense to outsource

"i'm at the top of my field" = "i am a college entrance fixer with more connections to prestigious alumni than you can imagine, cash gains you admittance to the secret corridors"

something about that article makes me doubt it, actually, though I'm sure they sell themselves as having some of those secret-club powers

a normal parent

Um, I graduated undegrad in fall 07. My parents didn't help me with shit, I applied early to one school and got in and that was the end of it.

As in, the normal parent helps their kid with writing the check for the application fee. Not being a ridiculous hovercraft over every detail of their kids' life and schedule and activities.

i think you have a different sense of what "normal" means than nabisco does

Anyone who can make $15,000 over the course of, like, a week is not a "normal parent."

xxxpost

not talking abt all pro counsellors, nabisco, just that dude

also the type of parents who shell out that kind of cash expect results and do not settle for anything less in my experience

yeah i think this is more about loving to spend money on stuff than any question of efficiency. applying to college is not that hard, iirc

I just don't grasp how kids whose families are in class positions to be able to afford these counselors haven't already been given the skills to fill out their own college applications. I can see it being challenging to someone from a poor background or for whom English is a second language, but to an affluent native speaker who presumably went to a "good" school? I mean, if they lack the intelligence and skill to do this on their own, then I question their ability to make their own way in life.

applying to college is not that hard

getting into college, especially the top tier of college, is really hard

yes, exactly. if i was an admissions person i would be looking out for people who have obviously used the help of a paid admissions counselor and put their applications in the shredder xp

i dunno my brother got into harvard w/o one ^_^

(xp)

The whole thing is that they don't make their own way in life.

My college counselor at school told me I shouldn't go to college, and that I should travel in Europe and find a rich sugar-daddy instead, then kill him and run off with his money

im sure your bro is really smart harbs but lets not pretend that hes any more "normal" than the kids who use private admissions counselors to help them with their applications!!

Anyone who can make $15,000 over the course of, like, a week is not a "normal parent."

I think this was the point -- haha thus the outsourcing

I don't recall my parents telling me much about college applications beyond reminding me to get the done -- they were probably busier figuring out the financial stuff for loan and grant applications -- but umm I would consider it a pretty "normal parent" thing to do to read over your kid's essays and give advice, or tell them they're not wearing jeans to the interview, or talk them through figuring out where they have a chance of getting in and what's a "safety school" and so on. I don't think that's abnormal behavior.

in interviewing oxford candidates i like to think i have become pretty good at detecting coached candidates. we make a note of it and it probably ends up being adjusted for (i.e. counting against them), although not in a formal way.

i'm not saying sometimes a little direction and counseling is totally unnecessary but this is retarded. if you can't figure out how to get in without spending $40k, there is no hope for you in life xxp

(They don't make their own ways in their own lives? Fuck, that sentence is fucking me up).

Anyway, yeah. All the kids I knew who went to Harvard? Lower middle-class kids who, like me, thought that using a counselor for the process was incredibly ridiculous. Most of the kids who used the counselor types ended up going to Penn, in the city where they grew up, and now where they still live. As in: they never did anything except rely on what they already knew, thus growing little.

I.e., if you were lucky enough to have parents with college educations who knew a little bit about the process, their advice and "normal parent" help would be the equivalent of, I dunno, a four-day $14k boot camp from an ex-admissions person drilling you on How to Get In

i'm not saying sometimes a little direction and counseling is totally unnecessary but this is retarded. if you can't figure out how to get in without spending $40k, there is no hope for you in life xxp

― blobfish russian (harbl), Monday, July 20, 2009 2:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

do u really think this is true of like harvard/yale/princeton?

Oh sure, caek, but it's also totally situational for most families not using these expensive services. A lot of kids I know got no help from their parents, a ot of kids I know got tons of help. I knew my essay and everything was good, I didn't need to show my parents that shit. Especially because my mom was all weepy that I wasn't applying early to an Ivy, but instead 'throwing away my talents' to go to...uh...yeah, that school that I went to and enjoyed most thoroughly.

not caek, sorry, nabisco xpost.