2021 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees POLL

Depending how you feel about punk, the New York Dolls are pretty towering.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 10, 2021 12:44 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sure, they definitely were in their way, but...well, put it this way: over a million people attended Fela's funeral. I doubt the Dolls have sold one million records (or played to a total of one million people). And that's not even getting into Fela's absolutely massive worldwide influence across wide swaths of musicians and composers, and the entire generations of musicians and activists that cite him as a key influence and inspiration.

You could use that as an argument that the Dolls, not Fela, need the attention.

parts are good, esp defining "classic rock" (the concept) vers. classic rock bands (say, velvet underground etc) and how bands like reo speedwagon are more important to classic rock than the beatles etc

Yeah, see, I would absolutely read a serious, well-argued book on these subjects, but I doubt Hyden is capable of writing one.

rock n' roll wouldn't make it into the fela kuti hall of fame

You could use that as an argument that the Dolls, not Fela, need the attention.

Tbf, it's a hall of fame. Rundgren towers for me as well, though.

I didn't mean that as a comparison of the relative toweringness (?) of the New York Dolls and Fela Kuti--as I posted earlier, I just don't know Fela Kuti's music. (This thread did inspire me to get a compilation.) Just that I don't think you can brush aside the Dolls. In the space of two albums, they did alter the course of history--not alone, but they're right alongside the Stooges and the Velvet Underground in shaping punk.

Is he the first African nominated?

Ben Sisario pointed out that Trevor Rabin of Yes was the first (and remains the only) African person in the R&RHOF, which is kind of like how Charlize Theron was the only African actor to win an Oscar before Lupita Nyong'o came along'o.

I thought there may be a case like that, but Rabin wouldn't even make my Yes Hall of Fame.

Anyway, this is beside the point, because we all know Buster Poindexter and Utopia are going to make it into the Hall eventually.

Dee hall on fiyah

dammit if sylvain didn't have to go and die to give them the momentum to get in, but this had so better be the dolls.

One of the reasonable things this institution has done over the last three years is allow individual singles into the hall. This makes sense to valourize certain songs without needing to pretend that the Kingsmen or Sam the Sham are Demigods of Rock. Nominally, these songs should not be recorded by artists already in the Hall, but they broke that rule with the Isley Bros. Here are the inducted singles:

Jackie Brenston and his Delta Cats - "Rocket 88"
Link Wray & His Ray Men - "Rumble"
Chubby Checker - "The Twist"
The Kingsmen - "Louie Louie"
Procol Harum - "A Whiter Shade of Pale"
Steppenwolf - "Born to Be Wild"

The Chantels - "Maybe"
The Champs - "Tequila"
Barrett Strong - "Money (That's What I Want)"
The Shangri-Las - "Leader of the Pack"
The Shadows of Knight - "Gloria"
The Isley Brothers - "Twist and Shout"

The Troggs - "Wild Thing"
Jr. Walker & the All Stars - "Shotgun"
Sam the Sham & the Pharaohs - "Wooly Bully"
Irma Thomas - "Time Is On My Side"
The Box Tops - "The Letter"

that's a great list

I'm a little tired of two of those ("Born to Be Wild" and, sorry, "The Letter"), but that's a fantastic group of songs.

the isleys aren't in the rock hall as artists????

They would be, though, if I'm reading halfway's introduction correctly.

ah word, i skipped right to the list.

The Shangri-Las ought to be in there, and so, historically, as the blueprint for every girl group that followed, should the Chantels.

i don't think DEVO will actually ever make it in but i thought the same thing regarding The Cure and Depeche Mode, so who knows. DEVO doesn't quite reach those bands heights. my vote nonetheless.

The Isley Brothers ARE in the HOF. They really have a problem of honoring the same people over and over again rather than those who've been overlooked. (For example, they had internal concerns on the lack of women inductees, so one of the first things they do is induct Stevie Nicks AGAIN. Meanwhile the Shangri-Las, X-Ray Spex, Lucinda Williams, Chaka Khan/Rufus and many others are still shut out.)

there should be no 'inductees' at all -- just make it a museum of the music -- but at least this way there's a furor/attention every year

Would you want the Baseball HOF to be just a museum of great games, though?

Never mind--I know you would!

^_^

"Leader of the Pack" is such a newbie/default Shangri-Las pick (but I guess it fits with the others on that list).

my imaginary five-act ballot:

Kate Bush
Devo
Iron Maiden
Fela Kuti
LL Cool J

"Leader of the Pack" is far from my favourite Shangri-Las song--there are at least four or five I like better--but I think it makes sense for the HOF.

I was thinking about my own most-egregious-omission, and I think I'd actually go with the Pet Shop Boys. I don't how much influence/historical importance you can attach to them--a lot, very little, I honestly don't know--but I think they've got everything else covered: career value, peak value, critical acclaim, sales, chart success, etc. Whenever they became eligible (2010?), I bet they weren't even nominated.

Can envision a compelling case for almost anyone on the list but to me Fela, Jigga, and Kate Bush are a cut above.

Wait until Morrissey snuffs it and then induct the Dolls a year later

Wait until Morrissey snuffs it and then induct the Dolls and the Smiths a year later

Fixed

I’m not anti-RRHOF, but Todd kind of makes a good point...

Rundgren called the Rock Hall "an industry invention" and argued that "true halls of fame are for retirees and dead people, because your legacy has been established." He added, "I'm too busy working to worry about my legacy — and plan to continue working until whenever."

"I'm a big Dionne Warwick fan, but name me one Dionne Warwick rock 'n' roll song," he said. "While I'm aware of Fela Kuti, I can't name a single musician who's ever cited him as a principal influence. Year by year it makes even less sense, so why would I be more excited about it or suddenly change my mind? Why don't they just start inducting blues guys? Why do they have to go to Dionne Warwick or Mary J. Blige?"

Yeah fuck that guy.

i really really really hate rundgren i hate him, hate his smug face, hate his shitty music

My personal feelings about his music aside, that's pretty bad. And laughable: "Why don't they just start inducting blues guys?" B.B. King and Muddy Waters were inducted in the first two years, Jimmy Reed soon after, and there's a whole "early influences" wing on top of that.

While I'm aware of Fela Kuti, I can't name a single musician who's ever cited him as a principal influence

...

i really really really hate rundgren i hate him, hate his smug face, hate his shitty music

^^^

I admit no-one needs Todd to say anything about anything.

It reminds me a bit of Clapton, in the ugly racial underpinnings (not even underpinnings, actually) and the cluelessness about what were supposedly his own influences: in the two or three year window around Something/Anything, when Rundgren made his greatest music, he was routinely thought to be heavily borrowing from Philadelphia soul.

"I'm too busy working to worry about my legacy"

but I thought Todd didn't want to work!?

I think Tom Waits had the best take on the HOF, which he gave right after he found out he was inducted.

“I never really cared about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame…but now I am surprised to discover how much I DO care.”

The HOF is kind of like the Grammys or the Oscars or any other high-profile "prestige" honor, there's a lot to knock about it. But it does mean a LOT to quite a few winners or inductees. In the case of the Oscars et al, it should be easy to understand because it's more or less their peers voting for them, but Greil Marcus got right to the point and I think he's right - if you can see it obviously means that much to someone, who are we or anyone else to shit all over it? I'm looking at a doo wop group or someone old enough to retire who barely got their royalties, in some cases still on the road trying to make a living without any of the glamor, and to them it feels like they've gotten their due. In some cases like Otis Redding, you have their widows still grieving over their deaths, and they're actually moved when they see how much they still mean to people. It ain't the same with someone like Journey and Bon Jovi, but I'm not going to take anything away from someone who gets to go up to the podium.

Johansen interviewed at Billboard:

Congrats on the Rock Hall nomination. When you heard about it, what was your immediate reaction?

"I have mixed feelings about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I don’t know. It's funny because as I was sleeping this morning, I was getting so many texts and messages. People in my coterie seemed excited about it."

Is it at least validating?

"To me the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame appears to be a racket. (laughs) I don't know what to think about it, I guess it'll sink in eventually."

If you get in, would you show up? Perform?

"I'm like, 'Well, what's the deal? We're nominated, but we're not inducted? We're not indictable?' I'm not even gonna think about that. I think about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as some homeless guy who comes in with a raincoat and a bottle of Sneaky Pete in his pocket. These guys have shaken him upside down till all the coins came out of his pocket over the years, and now they're gonna give him an award? 'Why don't you sing that old song you sang?' 'OK, sir.'"

lol <3

i really really really hate rundgren i hate him, hate his smug face, hate his shitty music

ugh there’s an awful ugly lyric in there I didn’t catch there before. sorry, folks, don’t listen to that :-(

upper miss otm I guess :-/ wtf todd

No way, Rundgren is great.

I don't agree that wishing the RRHOF would induct blues artists instead of R&B singers is comparable to Clapton wishing that immigration would stop before England became a black country, although it seems misguided.

It may not be comparable, but as noted above, there are in fact blues artists in the hall. He seems to think of Black artists as a single category. I don’t see him saying “let’s induct more old rock ‘n’ rollers before the Foo Fighters.”

thanks brimstead just another example of our cerebral pop genius at work

yeah, it’s like.. I was listening to “love of the common man” last night and it really is one of my favorite songs of all time... but ugh wtf todd

anyway, voted for the Go-Gos

I don't agree that wishing the RRHOF would induct blues artists instead of R&B singers is comparable to Clapton

I made the comparison in terms of their influences, not seriousness of what they said.