there is not one album in existence that better on CD than on vinyl is there?

that seems extraordinarily complex, maybe I'll just pay the extra $30 and get one already mounted. though I do have an extra headshell/cartridge, maybe I'll just take it apart for fun

If you can just replace the stylus with a better one, or even the same one (might've worn out?), see about that. I'm on an Ortofon OM cartridge, which i could upgrade a lot by swapping styluses, apparently. And if you do get a new cart you can probably turn up a ready made protractor print for it (search the table's specs).

so, to get this straight...if I just swapped out one headshell for another, chances are it's not measured correctly?

tried to disassemble an old cheap one I had, the wires popped out of the headshell, doesn't look like I can get them back in there, so...going great so far!!!

get out the soldering iron!

i used mine for a few months just eyeballing it to be straight, it was ok but i guess that was just luck. I mean take whatever for a spin on a record that's not worth a load, before you perfect it.

yeah be careful with those pins. fremer suggests loosening them with a toothpick if they're too tight. by mounting the cartridge i mean adjusting its position using those two mounting screws. this video goes into detail. it does require patience and sometimes it feels like you could use an extra arm, but it is also relaxing and a useful skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM-aIDwfrhc

ok, that helps!! I can't find the specs of my turntable and the manual doesn't say anything, but if I can just use the vinylengine protractor then I think I'm good.

luckily I managed to find the headshell that came with my turntable. my kids broke the stylus off it but I kept it just in case. anyway, this time the wires did *not* break off and I just mounted it by sight. probably incorrectly (are the two screws supposed to be parallel?) but it does seem to make a small difference. I did notice the headshell/cartridge kit has the screws all the way in the back, I'm guessing that's not right? is this gonna cause any damage to my records??

the two screws don't have to be parallel. what's really important is position of the stylus/cantilever as it tracks those null points like he says in the video. that's where the rubber hits the road, so to speak. not sure the effect on the vinyl if the stylus isn't tracking properly. but it's worth the extra minutes not to cut corners and get it as close as you can.

you can also search out michael fremer's turntable setup videos, which are more of an advanced class. his setup equipment costs more than my whole system, so it's more for entertainment value than anything else. but he is smart and you pick up a few useful pointers here and there.

alright I'll print it out and give it a shot. will report back

I did enjoy that vinyl TV video...as mentioned in the first comment, there's a very Bob Ross aura to that man isn't there?

haha i'm old and had to look up bob ross. good luck with everything!

whoa i was just reading something about your turntable on the vinylengine site and it appears to be a particularly strange beast. they're talking about "underhang," which i have to admit i've never heard of. most tonearms have an "overhang," i.e. their needles extend out a little further than the spindle. i'm not sure how much the traditional methods of aligning your cartridge are going to help you. there's this, but i don't pretend to understand it.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=74322

hmmm forget about my advice to try a micro linear or even an elliptical stylus. apparently the only type it's safe to use with that arm is conical like the one you have.

you're talking about whether or not the tonearm can reach the center? in that case, no, it's a little short. now I'm really not sure what to do, kind of sounds like I need to invest in a non-DJ turntable...

i've always hated on web forums when someone says "don't use that, use this instead." but...in this case...might not be a bad idea. or rather, i should probably just say i have no experience with your type of setup and can't really offer an opinion.

it’s such a shame the p-mount system died off - I know some people enjoy the tweakability of the trad half inch mount but geez sometimes it’s nice just to put a new cart in and have it work

frogbs, i'd strongly suggest looking into a new (to you) turntable if you're thinking of investing / upgrading your system. i just don't think putting a micro-linear stylus on one of those stantons will be the best use of your money.

i found this michael fremer video to be great and even a bit inspiring. i think it's neat how he emphasizes the "empowering" aspect of learning how to do these things for yourself in order to take the listening experience into your own hands (even if the stuff towards the ends is a little over my head):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7b75jmLaF8

this thing is 16 years old and missing a few parts, might be time to upgrade. for the time being based on what I'm understanding from your link I'm going to move the screws from the headshell to the cart up to the center, because they're all the way in the back now.

if you've got a good recommendation for a turntable with a decent stylus in it already...I'm all ears :)

i got my Pro-Ject T1 Phono SB because it's supposed to be as plug-and-play as possible, but like i said i wound up replacing their ortofon elliptical with my audio technical micro linear pretty quickly. for a little less, people seem to like those Fluence turntables.

here's fremer on that pro-ject:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/pro-ject-t1-phono-sb-turntabl-born-frustration

i think you could worse than an entry level pro-ject or music hall turntable. for a bit cheaper you can look into uturnaudio.com

for a refurbished vintage machine at a modest price, you might get in touch with the folks at fixmydual.com

I remember hearing a while ago that you really want a direct drive at that price point, not belt, but I won't pretend to know the difference

it’s such a shame the p-mount system died off - I know some people enjoy the tweakability of the trad half inch mount but geez sometimes it’s nice just to put a new cart in and have it work

yeah, i've been frozen in my turntable shopping for ages because my old one was a P-Mount and i sort of can't imagine learning to adjust a cartridge/tonearm/etc., but obviously shopping for ONLY p-mount turntables is really limiting!

by the way how do you change the cart on that thing? looks like the headshell & arm are just one piece, as opposed to mine which just twists out and is connected by magnets

what do y'all think of this one

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3S4X3P/ref=olp_aod_redir#aod

that used one for $255 seems like a good bargain

i have no experience with that one but that fellow in my steve hoffman link did: "I upgraded to at ATLP120x over the holidays from an ATLP60. I realize the 120 is by no means a "high-end" turntable, but for my needs (and system) at the moment, the 120 is a superb option. What has been so worthwhile with the 120 is that it has given me the opportunity to really discover what goes into the hobby of vinyl collection and turntable setup."

however, he then finds he needs to upgrade his stylus from the 95E to 95ML...

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/praise-for-the-at-vm95ml.938864/

frogbs I would steer clear of direct drive if you’re concerned about sound quality

I have this, it’s worked great for me except I had to mess with a potentiometer at the bottom to get the speed right.

https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/turntables/dp-300f

yea I've heard that direct drives sometimes pick up the sound of the motor but I've never actually heard this myself

tbh being unable to get my record player fixed and record shops being closed and no gigs has meant I have spent nearly nothing on music for a year.

dunno if it will last when I can actually get my record player fixed, I haven't converted to Spotify, I just play the mp3s/flacs I ripped from my record/CD collection and stuff I downloaded from my laptop plugged into the AUX of my hifi.

I like vinyl a lot, but I don't like having to deal with a broken record player, especially if getting the bastard fixed might cost me £££

I use my turntable mostly for my collection of post-punk, or for recent acquisitions from the cheap racks, and neither Pylon nor Foghat require super high fidelity to me. I use my CD player mostly for jazz and things that want lusher sonics. I just bought a thrift store copy of Linda Ronstadt’s What’s New, and even on my less than high hi-fi it sounds super nice. I already owned it on vinyl, but doubtful I will ever play that again.

TSF - is this the cart you have?

https://ttaino.shop/product/atvm95ml-dual-moving-magnet-turntable-cartridge_1209046.html?msclkid=2666ba16cf291f5e9b75da210b6166e3

it's $160+ everywhere else I look...

hold up this site has got to be a scam

one q for those of you who know things

I've heard the built in pre-amp on the AT120 (which I now have) is kinda garbage and that apparently a lot of people rip them out. I don't wanna fuck around with a soldering iron nor do I want to risk taking this thing apart but I have seen it suggested that something like the ART DJ Pre II (which is fairly cheap) can make a difference. if anyone has an external pre-amp, does it really make a noticeable improvement, or am I just chasing here? I assume I can just hook this up by switching to Line & plugging it into the Phono input on the receiver, correct?

(fwiw I think I might just pick up a micro-line stylus, which I assume would be a much bigger improvement)

or should I just assume the one on my receiver (an HK3470) is better than what I could get from a cheap external preamp?

I don't now about those specific things but I think a pre-amp can make a significant difference. I'm using a NAD PP-1 now which is very entry level and I can say it's not as good as the one in the audio interface I was using that blew some caps.

Kid a sounds better on CD than on the 10" vinyl copy I had. Same for in rainbows.

I assume I can just hook this up by switching to Line & plugging it into the Phono input on the receiver, correct?

In any case it should be easy enough now to compare the turntable’s preamp to the receiver’s so you might as well try both of those before considering an external preamp.

ditto, i would say first try it through the one in your receiver and see if you notice a difference. i don't really have much experience with external preamps, except a friend once lent me a fancy tube one and yeah it made a difference -- sorry to see it go. just a guess, but if you're looking to upgrade i would think the cartridge would make more of a difference that the preamp.

this is the cart i have: https://www.turntableneedles.com/AT-VM95ML_Cartridge_Authorized_Dealer

though it occurs to me....with your new turntable, you might already have an AT-VM95 series cartridge. in which case to upgrade to an ML you'd just need to replace the stylus, not the whole cartridge. it's not that much less, cost-wise, but it's just a pop-in replacement.

https://www.turntableneedles.com/AT-VMN95ML_Genuine_audio-technica_Stylus_for_AT-VM95ML_AT-VM95_series

Kid a sounds better on CD than on the 10" vinyl copy I had. Same for in rainbows.

― candyman

From the ones I own on both formats The Bends, OKC and IR sound better on CD to my ears. Kid A sounds way better in vinyl for me, though.

I haven’t heard HTTT on vinyl but I’m not a fan of how it sounds in digital or CD. I’ve heard people praising the difference on that one in particular.

xp yeah I'm gonna see if I can borrow one first. I know this shit is a hassle but honestly it's quite fun to doink around with. I think I will be getting one of those VM95MLs though. I saw a YouTube video comparing it to the 95E (which I have) and there is a huge difference in some of the inner grooves. Granted I think this is up to the mastering - some of my LPs have IGD, a lot of them don't (or just have it in the last 20-30 seconds), but still, eliminating that would be a dream

yeah my turntable is basically undoink-with-able -- it's made to basically plug and play. i like that, yet the other half of me is a doinker who wants to tune the thing to perfection. when i "grow up," i've been eyeing this schiit turntable that is the polar opposite of mine. it's made for doinkers. you can adjust everything humanly possible. https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-sol-turntable?qt-related_posts=1

I'm starting to become like that, though I don't really know what I'm doing I am slowly learning. its kind of funny how vinyl sort of tunes you in to all these little imperfections - several times I've thought either the record or needle was dirty or something was misaligned but when I've compared to an MP3 version that I've listened to for years it turns out it actually does sound like that. so I guess I'm developing a keener ear. but that sorta drives you nuts.

not the worst way to get started with soldering, but (after reading about the issue even with the preamp supposedly turned off), what an impressive pain in the ass! Mess around a while between the built-in and your receiver before voidingnthe warranty tho i guess.

i found this article on the AT LP-120. why is everyone removing the internal preamp? i don't get that -- isn't there a way to just bypass it?
anyway, he says the first upgrade should be the stylus/cartridge, not the preamp. https://vinylrestart.com/best-phono-preamp-for-at-lp120/

Something something signal path

Agree that it can't be such a big thing

anyway, what makes the journey all worth it, in my experience anyway, is when i'm listening to my records i sort of can't believe how great they sound.

yeah after a decade-plus of listening to nothing but 192 kbps MP3s it's really opened my eyes

tbf the moment of reckoning was a couple years ago with a CD - there was a certain one I had to buy because I couldn't find it online, anywhere. I popped it in the car stereo and a number of times thought "holy shit, this sounds awesome", then realizing that it must be because for once I was listening to an actual CD

Xpost maybethe kid a 12" vinyl, but not the 10" edition. And the American vinyl of rainbows sounded too loud.

In Rainbows is an interesting example for this thread. The double vinyl, 45rpm version I've seen singled out many times as the paragon of vinyl sound quality for a release this century. The more common single LP, yeah kinda sounds shit.

I'm never sure about getting newer (music made this century basically) albums on vinyl. Doesnt seem worth it anymore. You never know what the pressing will be like. Theres the price too obv. But I've come to accept that.

i hear lots of people complaining about modern pressings. maybe i've been walking between the raindrops but i've had the opposite experience -- most of them sound great to me. if they're not analog-sourced they typically use very high resolution digital as masters, they tend not to overcompress the masters, pressings are quiet, etc. plus since peoples' home systems are somewhat "tuned" to their own preferences, things just sound better on them. i guess having a cd-length album split among 4 LP sides can be a drag, but cds are too long and you can make believe each disk is its own LP. their prices are commensurate with what they used to cost. in 1973 (i'm old) i remember paying $3.33 for jethro tull's 'passion play' which though 'on sale' was 33 cents more than i was used to paying for new lps but i did it because i had tickets to see them at nassau coliseum and i wanted to be familiar with their new album. an inflation calculator tells me that would be $26.42 today.