ALTMAN POLL

Wrong link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prêt-à-Porter_(film)

that scene in The Company with the couple dancing on an outdoor stage to My Funny Valentine in a thunderstorm with just cello and piano accompaniment was spectacular

I really liked seeing the dance performances in that film, and the deliberately unfocused story about the dancers seemed appropriate

have been thinking about Altman’s eras

!) MASH, Brewster McCloud, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, The Long Goodbye, Thieves Like Us, California Split, Nashville - the 70s classics
2) Three Women - unlike any of his other films
3) A Wedding, Quintet, A Perfect Couple, Health, Popeye
4) The 80s films based on plays - Come Back to the 5 & Dime, Streamers, Secret Honor
5) The Player, Short Cuts
6) Gosford Park, The Company, Prairie Home Companion

It’s been a while since I saw either, but Images might belong in the same category. Different eras, though, I suppose.

Same category as Three Women, I meant to say.

haven't seen Images

It’s probably underrated due to the classics that surround it in his filmography. Maybe it’s actually the same era as three women - I had it in my mind that it was pre-MASH but it’s actually 1972, between McCabe and Long Goodbye.

Your categorization is pretty much dead-on, I'd say. At first I thought Gosford Park might belong with The Player and Short Cuts--his last three widely acclaimed films--but there's eight years and six films separating them. The only thing I'd add is a period covering his pre-MASH work; primarily That Cold Day in the Park, but there's a bit more than that.

I don't consider Three Women a masterpiece--an increasingly minority viewpoint--but it does stand alone, hard to slot into either what comes before or after.

It didn't help that Images wasn't available for ages; seldom revived, rumor had it the elements had been destroyed in a fire, but DVDs and Blu-Rays of quality started appearing in the mid 2000s.

Images and Three Women both have unique Stoner-Bergman thing going on.

watching Three Women I do think of Bergman's Persona, but it's different

but also maybe the same

Images was an early try for the mystery of Three Women, but (as Kael pointed out) the dialogue is terrible and it is a lot more heavy-handed. I waited years to see it on the big screen and was terribly disappointed. Actually, That Cold Day in the Park, though inconsistent, is somewhat similar to both films, and probably superior to Images.

that scene in The Company with the couple dancing on an outdoor stage to My Funny Valentine in a thunderstorm with just cello and piano accompaniment was spectacular

Same. It may be the peak of his powers.

i love images

pic.twitter.com/CPrRI7pObJ

— Nicky Smith (@nickyotissmith) March 24, 2021

Not sure if I ever shared this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDgCM-V41_A

So great...

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/california-split-40-years-later-interview-elliott-gould-george-segal-joseph-walsh-three-parts/

Joseph Walsh shared a California Split sequel script on his website: http://josephrwalsh.com/jrw/

Very important update: In the course of doing my all-time movie ballot, I reversed my Altman 1-2 from McCabe/Goodbye to Goodbye/McCabe. Since I'm on record upthread as a McCabe voter in this poll, I would like to change my vote and finally break this tie.

Still impressed ILX picked the right four as the top four, whatever order they came in.

I've still not seen 3 Women. Surprised A Wedding only got one vote, that's great.

A Wedding is the first of his '70s run that I remember basically nothing about (although Buffalo Bill is a little fuzzy).

I'm generally the one arguing that later films don't equal earlier ones, but with Nashville to one side, I'd now include Player and Short Cuts in the mix with the best (and maybe Tanner, although I liked it a little less on second viewing).

The Player...

Buffalo Bill is if Reg Dunlop from slapshot started a medicine show.

On the plus side, no hockey.

A Wedding is the first of his '70s run that I remember basically nothing about (although Buffalo Bill is a little fuzzy).

― Slime Goobody (Old Lunch), Friday, May 21, 2021 6:53 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

"You can get cancer from smoking pot?"

It's a very sloppy movie, 48 actors each with a single tic to individualize them. I remember Carol Burnett and Lillian Gish best.

I feel like I need to rewatch Nashville. On first viewing something about the satire fell really flat for me.

Honestly, a lot of the humour in Nashville is pretty ham-handed.

Example(s)? I may or may not agree.

This is going off memory since it's been a while, but my feeling at the time was that it didn't have much of a soul, that it was just one long, cold, cynical snicker.

You'll probably find me arguing this above: I don't experience the film that way at all. Yes, there's some condescension here and there, but from my vantage point, Altman loves the characters, and that's why it's a great film. I'd call something like Bob Roberts a better example of the reputation that has attached to Nashville (from people who don't like it).

I wouldn't actually say there's a lot of humour in Nashville, but any scene involving Geraldine Chaplin falls flat. A lot of the jokes in the dialogue are corny people saying corny things. That may be real but not necessarily funny, but as I say, I don't judge it primarily as a comedy (or a musical).

I have warmed up to the Chaplin stuff in Nashville in that I think it's totally fair to say that much of the rest of the world depicts that area with more than just a little condescension.

Which is fine. It's obv he doesn't understand country.

If you think that, no problem. What I've never understood is thinking that while saying you love the film. How could anyone love a condescending film?

Disagree about Chaplin. Besides getting maybe the film's single funniest line (I'm listening to you, but look what's over there...), I find much of her gibberish priceless.

And disagree about the soundtrack to the degree that I wouldn't assume Altman claims that these country songs have anything to do with Hank Williams or the Carter Family or lots of country music, any more than the people who made Spinal Tap would claim that their movie is a comment on Bob Dylan or the Beatles or all rock music. Does Spinal Tap have anything to say about some rock music? Yes, it does.

How could anyone love a condescending film?

The same way I can love didactic films; it's getting used to their ethos and tone of voice.

I'd have to think about it, but I think we part ways there; I put condescension right next to sarcasm in the toxic department.

For clarification, what's an example of a didactic film? Makes me think of Kael on Siegfried Kracauer. Something like Godard's Letter to Jane?

To be clear, I think that Chaplin's character's condescension is absolutely a fair characterization of that role in the film. I don't think it's condescension on Altman's part. Nashville is basically unimpeachable AFAIC.

And disagree about the soundtrack to the degree that I wouldn't assume Altman claims that these country songs have anything to do with Hank Williams or the Carter Family or lots of country music, any more than the people who made Spinal Tap would claim that their movie is a comment on Bob Dylan or the Beatles or all rock music. Does Spinal Tap have anything to say about some rock music? Yes, it does.

― clemenza, Friday, May 21, 2021 3:13 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Spinal Tap is absolutely condescending to hair metal dudes though, it's just also affectionate and funny and come on it's hair metal we're talking about, and I don't really feel like Spinal Tap is trying to make a POINT about anything other than maybe ego and lack of self-awareness. Whereas Nashville felt like it might as well have been titled Nashville is Fake, because that's about all I felt like the film had to say. And that's just not that interesting a point to make.

It's utterly insane to me that someone would think Spinal Tap is more affectionate toward its characters than Nashville but shrug.gif

it's just also affectionate and funny

I agree with that--courtesy of the performers; not Rob Reiner, I don't think--and that's what makes Spinal Tap great; if were it were flat-out ridicule, it'd be a bad TV sketch.

I just don't see the line that you do where Spinal Tap is this but Nashville is that.