Yeah, but they added 'and isn't related to its ostensible outside referent', which I think is a step too far.
― pomenitul, Monday, 1 February 2021 23:30 (three years ago) link
It would be too far to say that's how you relate to all music, but not that it happened in this seemingly extreme case. It's a possible thing, no?
― maf you one two (maffew12), Monday, 1 February 2021 23:36 (three years ago) link
Is Genesis's Selling England By the Pound "upsell rock"?
― Wrong Screamed Barney (Neanderthal), Monday, 1 February 2021 23:39 (three years ago) link
It's technically possible, yes, but since I'm hardly the only person who feels this way about PS, and for very similar reasons, it seems highly unlikely. Look, it just sounds painfully corny to my ears – that's not an especially outlandish or surreal statement, I don't think.
xp
― pomenitul, Monday, 1 February 2021 23:41 (three years ago) link
I have no issue. I think it has rightfully come down a peg from the turn of the century hyperbole. I think people were just trying to help you stop waking up in terror about how bad it is?
― maf you one two (maffew12), Monday, 1 February 2021 23:47 (three years ago) link
lol, and I do appreciate it!
Behind every challop itt is a cry for help.
― pomenitul, Monday, 1 February 2021 23:48 (three years ago) link
Haha, Neanderthal.
I think this is the most I've ever disagreed with pomenitul!
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:03 (three years ago) link
it’s too bad some of the lyrics are creepy because musically that modern lovers album is so righteous
― brimstead, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:03 (three years ago) link
I guess I feel the “creepy” lyrics are a feature, not a bug.
― excuse me while I fold my pants (morrisp), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:05 (three years ago) link
does richman’s later stuff have that same creepy vibe? it’s been a while since i listened to any of it but it seemed like he went off in a pretty different direction.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:07 (three years ago) link
yeah, jr's an eccentric guy — maybe it was intentional?
also have to agree that just the overall sound and sonic aesthetic of pet sounds is pretty schmaltzy. still decent tho.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:09 (three years ago) link
Alas. I'm sure you've got a (to me) hair-raising musical challop up your sleeve (or two)!
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:10 (three years ago) link
xp I think the later stuff is where he became genuinely “childlike” (to circle back above); I haven’t heard much of it, though.To expand further on my earlier thought: I think the concept of eating health food at home suuuucks, but it’s interesting to hear a song’s narrator rationalize, “I don’t wanna hang out with your junky ass anyway!”
― excuse me while I fold my pants (morrisp), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:11 (three years ago) link
"wouldn't it be nice" is a queer anthem if you ask me.
yeah and as I said if a queer teenager in 2021 (e.g., my own personal offspring) hears that, then I am on board with that interpretation
I get that Brian himself was neither queer nor incel. But if these readings are gaining resonance 54-55 years onward, then maybe somethiing interesting is going on
But I also don't wanna join in boomer nostalgia-worship, that shit is played out like an eight-track
― pot sounds (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:21 (three years ago) link
Music is more than a Rorschach test imo.
How is this even up for discussion lol
― Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:26 (three years ago) link
A dial tone can be either The Tired Sounds of Stars of the Lid or London Calling depending on who's listening to it, y'know.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:28 (three years ago) link
music is entirely a Rorschach test
― Dan S, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:30 (three years ago) link
the whole concept of controversial music opinions is an argument for subjectivity, that all expressions of our likes and dislikes are a product of our personalities and experiences and not related to any outside referents
― Dan S, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:31 (three years ago) link
As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as music.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:32 (three years ago) link
I mean, my reaction to Pet Sounds is/was pretty much the complete polar opposite of pomenitul's, down to: my love of PS misled me to believe that i might give a shit about "critically acclaimed music". I mean, there are records i prefer to Pet Sounds but few if any that appear on music critics' lists.
But ok, if you're going to argue that it's "painfully corny", i can't honestly say that "painfully corny" has nothing at all to do with my experience of Pet Sounds
― Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:33 (three years ago) link
At some point, I will attempt to write something about why I don't think it's corny or juvenile, although if music is purely a Rorschach tests and all responses to it are pure interiority with no relation to outside referents and existence is meaningless, I'm not sure if there's a point. What good would writing do me?
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:38 (three years ago) link
Honestly I find it very easy to put myself in the shoes of people who strongly dislike the music that I love. A given musical quality can fall on one side of the critical divide or the other depending on who's listening, but that doesn't mean we're hearing completely different things, solipsistically.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:39 (three years ago) link
Pet Sounds is a chicken casserole imo.
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:40 (three years ago) link
Like, if someone says Gilmour-era Pink Floyd is terminally boring faux-deep dadcore or whatever, I know exactly what they're talking about, even though I myself don't experience it the same way at all.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:41 (three years ago) link
I'm guessing you mean "Gilmour era" as in "post-Piper" but if you mean the post-Waters Gilmour-led Pink Floyd, that's actually impressive and maybe a controp if you hear none of it that way.
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:46 (three years ago) link
I do mean post-Piper, yeah. That wasn't entirely clear, sorry.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:47 (three years ago) link
As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as music.― pomenitul, Monday, February 1, 2021 4:32 PM
― pomenitul, Monday, February 1, 2021 4:32 PM
earlier in this very topic, i believe it was me who declared that all bands are terrible.
i'd like to think the proper way to word this conclusion is:
all bands are terrible, so as a matter of fact, there is no such thing as music.
throw the rorschach thing in there, and yeah: just cut my ears off, we're done here. the whole thing was noting but a stupid thought experiment. cue simpsons clip of comic book guy about to die.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:47 (three years ago) link
Alternatively, 'Talk Talk is just some mumbling self-important bloke singing formless songs with no proper hooks' is also an understandable statement, regardless of how much I might emotionally disagree with it.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:48 (three years ago) link
New board description imo.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:49 (three years ago) link
I wasn't trying to say that opinions about music are worthless, they are what I live for here
― Dan S, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:53 (three years ago) link
When people say a piece of music is "corny" very often what that means ime is that it's overtly emotionally manipulative, PS is totally "guilty" in that sense. And others.
I don't think it's juvenile, but then again i'm extremely juvenile myself.
― Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:59 (three years ago) link
Itt people are presuming that the way to discredit the concept of a rorschach test is to deny the existence of ink and paper
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:03 (three years ago) link
Also, *this* is yr new board description:
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 00:38 (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Bit long for a board description
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:04 (three years ago) link
neither queer nor incel.
― maf you one two (maffew12), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:04 (three years ago) link
Fancy seeing you here, deems.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:05 (three years ago) link
Mandated inspection and i dont like it any more'n you men do
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:07 (three years ago) link
Juicy ILX drama comes in different shapes and sizes. All of them are deserving imo.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:08 (three years ago) link
What good would writing do me?
pom only knows
― maf you one two (maffew12), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:11 (three years ago) link
:D
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:12 (three years ago) link
Ftr, posts I was responding (admittedly grumpily and unfairly) to were a bit stronger than "our response to music is shaped by our own point of view" and included qualifiers such as "entirely" and "not related to any". Also, I haven't taken a Rorschach test that I recall but aiui Rorschach inkblots are designed to be ambiguous geometric patterns that are not directly representative or expressive. A lot of music is created with rather different intentions and purposes. (I actually like abstracted hyper-formalism myself, though, tbf.)
― to party with our demons (Sund4r), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:15 (three years ago) link
Music is representational!
― Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:19 (three years ago) link
That's my controversial opinion
Itt people are presuming that the way to discredit the concept of a rorschach test is to deny the existence of ink and paper― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Monday, February 1, 2021 5:03 PM
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Monday, February 1, 2021 5:03 PM
what and WHAT!!???!
singing formless songs with no proper hooks― pomenitul, Monday, February 1, 2021 4:48 PM
― pomenitul, Monday, February 1, 2021 4:48 PM
i know this is supposed to be a faux negative critique, but this description will mostly likely have my undivided attention.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:19 (three years ago) link
A+
― pot sounds (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:22 (three years ago) link
"Rorschach inkblots are designed to be ambiguous geometric patterns that are not directly representative or expressive" sounds like a lot of the music I like
― Dan S, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:23 (three years ago) link
Kinda tempted to start a 'Music that sounds like Rorschach inkblots' thread now.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:24 (three years ago) link
Metal Machine Music springs to mind.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:25 (three years ago) link
i think some terry riley would apply as well.
good thread idea, btw.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:29 (three years ago) link
Was sund4r not leaving that out there in his last line tbf, not to be a hater or anything
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 01:36 (three years ago) link