discogs marketplace?

...an EX rating between VG+ and NM...VG allows scratches “that can be felt with a fingernail,” then VG+ is just too broad a grade.

VG allows for groove wear FFS! And because the VG+ is unclear about minor surface noise it's often claimed that VG+ must play "perfectly" whatever that means. I do actually follow this as far as possible when grading and I'm sure as a result many of my VGs are equivalent to Near Mints elsewhere.

Which is to say I agree, an EX grade would suit me as I am very partiular about NM, never use M for vinyl and downgrade VG+ at more than a hint of crackle, which is galling given the reality of a lot of new vinyl.

xp: Here's a tip re. tracking numbers: US buyers, and possibly some other overseas buyers too, can often use the bar code number from the shipping label to track their packages once they've arrived in the US. Alternatively, if you're using pre-printed adhesive CN22 forms as supplied by your post office, they also have bar code numbers. I supply either or both of these to buyers when setting the order to Shipped, along with some standard copy/paste text explaining when they can be used. Again, it manages expectations and prevents a lot of subsequent messaging.

I only use M if the vinyl is still sealed. I grade VG+ if there's no surface noise whatsoever, occasionally making an exception for light and brief introductory crackle, but I'll also explain that in the description. I'll also grade some 7"s as VG+ if the B-sides have surface noise, but only where I think the B-sides are likely to have little interest, and again that will be explained in the description. Sometimes I'll grade a record with no surface noise as VG if the playing surface is significantly marked, and I'll always downgrade to VG if there's writing/stickers/damage to the label - but in the latter case, I'll start the description with "VG+ except for...."

This thing of no surface noise whatsoever. It's rare if not nonsexistent especially with nu-vinyl. There's no threshold defined. I use headphones, any noise is completely apparent, not least because it is mostly distributed very widely in stereo. If I used speakers at a moderate level with background city noise I could say there was "no surface noise whatsoever".

This kind of thing is a terrible crime for some - https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/413610?page=16#8368827

But it's not necessarily counter to the actul grading definitions. So yes, an EX grade and a more clearly defined VG+ and less broad VG would be good.

I take the high road on grading as far as I can and I'm very particular with these things by temperament but we're up against hoardes of sellers who don't give a damn or genuinely think mouldy old bangers are mint. It's a little galling at times.

For assessing surface noise, I use speakers at quite a loud level with no background noise. I work in a semi-underground room on a quiet street with no adjoining neighbours, so it's feasible. My decks are very sensitive to surface noise, and so I've often ruffled the feathers of sellers whose gradings I've politely disagreed with. But so far, after four and a half years of selling and about 8000 records shifted, I've had my gradings disputed maybe 4 or 5 times, and I've never yet had neutral or negative feedback from vinyl buyers (only from CD buyers, the picky bastards).

M = 'sealed'
NM = 'would not complain if I bought it new from the shop and it was like this'
Vg+ = 'pretty decent, obviously been played a bit but generally fine. Might have a click or two, but c'mon it's a record!'
Vg = 'seen action but it's effect is ignorable, to me anyway.'
G = 'bad'
P = 'use as sandpaper or for taking to Woody Bop Murray's record graveyard'

G+ = it plays without skipping or sticking, but there's no ignoring that crackle.

mike t-diva gets it, that is correct grading

Kinda unreal that something with writing on labels & jacket could be considered a “beautiful copy”

depends on context sorta... if it's a record released in 2015 then writing on the jacket knocks the grading way down, but if you're talking about some self-released psych LP from 1970 where only like six copies are known to exist, that IS a beautiful copy

tbh if the writing is neat enough it rarely phases me, especially when it's pen. it's the scrawling, inconsiderate marker writing that really bums me out.

i have a don cherry record on MPS which i bought in france from a shop that had acquired the collection of a recently-deceased music journalist. the liner notes have neat underlining and there were french translations of words and phrases scribbled into the margins -- to me that's just part of the provenance, you know? like i wouldn't consider the jacket to be VG

I got a digipak in the mail on Friday with sleeve condition described as "NM" that had clearly been stored in a fishtank since it was purchased, but for five bucks who cares

if it's not a rare album I kinda like the writing on the jacket - I have XTC & Gordon Lightfoot records with favorite songs & lyrics circled in the insert, a bunch of Utopia records with the previous owner's name written on the front, some King Crimson LPs with "Stefano" written in Sharpie...its kinda cool to feel some sort of connection with the previous owner. but it should knock the price down a buck or two, come on

There’s a ton of records circulating in my hometown with PICKLES scrawled across the front covers in sharpie.

I remember buying this on Discogs and being surprised when it arrived because the listing hadn't disclosed anything about writing on the cover. In most cases, I'd be a little mad about it, but I legit laughed out loud when I opened the box this one was in. Boss move, "P.M."

https://i.imgur.com/5ctzvb2.jpg

lmao that got me

that's "mint" in the other sense

hahahahaha

Someone sold me a sealed NM/NM copy of the new Bicep 3LP and 2 of the 4 corners were bent / creased. I let it go but I wanted to leave neutral feedback since the description didn't say anything about it and the box it was shipped in did not cause the damage. Complaining about bent corners is a bit picky but it did irritate me.

I don’t mind wear on jackets, but stains are kinda a deal breaker for me and sorry I feel like a dick but ppls names and writing creeps me out kinda :-/

I guess stories like this emphasize the importance of a) asking the seller, before buying, to describe flaws if there is no description in the listing, and b) holding the seller to account after the fact; if items are mis-graded, I would really encourage contacting them directly and receiving some kind of compensation for it. You’re paying for a NM item, you should receive one or pay for a lower grade.

otm –– and in my experience it's worth doing. sellers are often happy to knock a few bucks off if something slipped past them or they failed to mention it in their listing. i know i am!

to be clear the last few opinions i've expressed are me-as-buyer. i've just found that it helps to be flexible / understanding about certain things and ultimately it makes my already-expensive and -exhausting compulsion to collect records a little more enjoyable if i can see certain "flaws" as adding a unique history / provenance to my specific copy. as a buyer i essentially flip 180 and pretend to be simultaneously the most anal and the most clueless person ever. i know some ppl who get caught up in the drama about "correct" grading which imo is just shooting yourself in the foot. the important thing is to be as clear as possible; doesn't matter if your "right" if the buyer doesn't fully understanding your criteria etc.

i once had a seller tell me that while packing the record for shipping he realized that he had substantially overgraded it as VG+ when it was actually a beat-to-hell G, so he proactively gave me a full refund, which i thought was a pleasant surprise, but later he got mad at me and left me negative feedback when i gave the transaction a 'neutral' review. in my view it seemed like pretty much the exact situation that option was made for? the guy sent me a worthless record for free, like thanks i guess but idk i wouldnt say it was a flawless transaction

heehee. I dunno i would've just left that alone

yeah neutral seems harsh in that case

it is a funny situation. He still shipped the thing.

Negative: expects me to do his recycling

does it affect their seller rating negatively? i think that was the only time i used it, i assumed it was for transactions that were a wash in some way, like a nonbinding vote of 'present'

yeah if you don't have a certain % of positives, some folks won't sell to you

yeah that's pretty harsh giving that a neutral. I had a similar thing where someone bought an Atari Teenage Riot CD single off me, but it'd been on discogs for like 5 years, and in between me listing it and getting it to post out, the CD had got really bad brown disc rot on it. So I refunded the buyer, explained why, but I didn't send it anyway, I just chucked it in the bin. I would've been pretty annoyed if I'd got neutral feedback for that tbh.

Maybe think of feedback ratings like record grading. Neutral is like Good - i.e. it's actually bad.

you can get retaliatory feedback removed, I’d ask Discogs about it, there’s a form somewhere. It’s worked for me.

huh it hadnt ever occurred to me like that. maybe i'll go back and take it down, in the spirit of the new year and new beginnings

the rating system should have a feature matrix that the seller applies to items and then buyers could define their own rating system based on the features and sort by it. like how linguists describe a sound with a list of +/- features:

[+writing on sleeve]
[-crushed top left corner]
[+crushed bottom left corner]
[-crushed top right corner]
[-crushed bottom right corner]
[-ring wear]
[+barcode cancelled]
[-promotional use only stamp]

of course the sellers would object strongly to this because it would take a lot of time to list 3,000 items this way. but it would avoid the inherent ambiguity of a term like "very good"

xp Yeah! it is just weird though and he can't expect you have that awareness if you're not selling. If that was me selling/refunding I would've just come out and said, hey would you mind just not doing feedback on this transaction.

I don't think neutrals affect a seller's % fwiw. And for buyers they count positively.

I left a buyer a rare neutral for something that was 100% their mistake, didn't even mention that it had left me out a few £ and they got indignant about the feedback until I talked them down.

I don't know if that's harsh - it seems like uncompleted orders are the sort of thing neutral feedback is for. And I really couldn't say that was positive. The system tells you how many orders haven't had feedback left and it bugs me if I don't 0 it periodically.

whenever i sold records online in the past, i always gave "visual grades" and then made special mention of ANY writing that was ANYWHERE on the record. the reason for this is because i sold a 45 to a guy once and it was obviously an unplayed radio copy, as it had the station's call numbers written on the label above the song information in very small letters and i made no mention of this in the listing. the buyer really threw a fit. the record looked unplayed to me and i still only rated the condition as vg-, but the dude was adamant that i misrepresented the item. it was really annoying.

One time, I bought a Who album cheap on ebay. I was surprised to receive about six who albums, all decent, including a nice Quadrophenia. And I'd only bought a "kids are alright" soundtrack.. So I asked, and he said it was because I was the only interested buyer.

Of course, I gave him a positive rating and review, but didn't go into detail, otherwise other people might expect etc.

I have had situations where the album I was just about to send proved to be a G rather than a VG+, but cancelled the order (and explained), and got a thanks back.

one time, a dude did a similar thing on eBay for me, mark. he offered me the opportunity to outright buy the album at a (much) reduced price. i did it and was pleasantly surprised, as i found his grading metric to be decidedly much stricter than my own.

not discogs related but I am part of a FB record buy/sell group and I misgraded something recently that was like G+ instead of VG+ and just gave a full refund. I'd be really bummed is someone left me "Neutral" feedback for that (but, then again, that's a perfect example of why I no longer sell online outside of private groups where there's some degree of accountability)

*if

Oh, yeah.. One more tale..

This happened twice, difft albums.

I bid for and won a Nick Drake album at a very cheap price. Unfortunately, the seller packed it all up, left it in his car one sunny day, oh no its melted oh no full refund.

(other time, fz/mothers 1st album, single lp UK version, won cheaply, but oh no the dog has attacked it oh no.)

Anyway, I accepted their tale of woe, what else can I do? I did mention what happened in neutral feedback, just in case they get tempted to do it again if they are baddies (and if they really were honest, don't be clumsy). The Nick Drake dude got mildly pouty, but hey.

single lp UK version

wait what

Austin - I have done that as well, for things that were VG rather than NM. Figure vg might be a good placeholder, until a nice one comes along.

Yeah, "Freak Out" was a single lp, first time out. Frank was annoyed.

ppls names and writing creeps me out kinda :-/

I quite like it - I like the sense that albums I bought had a life before they came to me (though I'd rather the vinyl itself didn't reflect that too explicitly). Also if it makes the record cheaper then I'm all for that.

Like I picked up a few Isleys albums from the 70s at a Chicago Salvation Army store a couple of decades agio, for 99c each, and they sound fine, and the previous owner had placed her address stickers on them, locating their old homes to somewhere on the south side, and I like to think of these old albums soundtracking some fun parties back in the day.

yeah I know it’s just a weird thing I have