Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

I mean, I'm not really concerned about those popular national touring acts? If you're enough of a dope to spend a ton of money on concert tickets for a stadium or arena show, then that's on you.

Bit more worried about smaller bands and venues, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

My concern is small arts organizations not making it.

Exactly. The number of literary arts venues and groups is going to drop precipitously the longer this continues.

Oh absolutely I'm most worried about the small, local venues and organizations. Definitely.

My point was separate from that, tl;dr I think the demand is going to drive ticket prices up to really high levels. I don't think it will impact the local jazz shows, house punk shows, DIY stuff in that respect, but I'm talking anything from the latest Pitchfork hyped bands on up to the Taylor Swift/BTS level mega-stars - I think those ticket prices are going to shoot into the stratosphere.

As a random example, let's say someone at the level of a Jason Isbell. Not exactly selling out arenas, but a lot of hype and support from indie radio stations. Last time he came through Chicago, I think ticket prices were around the $40-45 level. I won't be at all surprised that it costs three figures to see him on his next tour.

Oh yeah, for sure. I guess that I just *personally* don't care for any of that latter stuff, and can't imagine ever spending more than like $75 on a concert ticket. Most I ever spent was $250 for two tickets to see the Scissor Sisters open for Lady Gaga in early 2011 that was a gift for an ex.

(I also don't even know who Isbell is, which shows how much I actually keep track of this stuff)

Isbell is like one of the only bearable people in the universe adjacent to country

Oh yeah, I cringe at ever spending that much too, I just think that the higher prices are going to trickle down and even "known" touring bands hitting up 1,000 seat theaters (like, say, the Metro in Chicago) are going to be seeing triple digit ticket prices for awhile.

I mean, I hope I'm wrong! I just think the demand is really going to drive up ticket prices for a few years as things open up. But let's get there first and keep supporting the small, local places so they can still be around as an alternative!

Agreed!

the small arts org/venue that i am (was) on the board of tanked in June :/

I am really curious about the touring demand question, tbh i'm not 100% sold on the idea that there will be an explosion of pent-up demand for live entertainment, i am wondering if the opposite will happen, if the effect of 2+ years of fear and trauma will make many people reticent to immediately go back out and cram themselves into packed clubs and arenas. i think it could be just as likely that there will be a glut of supply as every act jumps to get back on the road while the audiences are still taking baby steps to reacclimate to normal pre-covid life

Pretty sure demand is going to be huge. I was thinking of this exact problem the other day and came to my personal conclusion that even if all of the bands I actually care about sold out too quickly or cost too much money or whatever, I'm going to go to as many shows as I can. Could be MC Hammer at a state fair or whatever.

There's always buying digital music and mail-order merch to support bands. Went much harder on that in 2020 than I have in many years

https://mixtapeclub.net

There's always buying digital music and mail-order merch to support bands. Went much harder on that in 2020 than I have in many years

Been doing a ton of each, to be sure! Still not a patch on the live music experience at all, imho. As of today, 361 days since I've seen a live show.

Sort of hit a point where lock downs in the UK feel weird - sort of wearying but not strict enough at the same time.

totally. feels too loosey-goosey to me. there are prets that are still open.

My parents should get vaccinated soon, and we are so desperate for the kids to go there for a while and to get them out of the house so everybody can have a fucking break. Kids have been virtual this entire time. I was thinking that this should be able to happen in a month or so, maybe spring break?

Then wife sent me links to articles about how it still might not be safe and whatnot. I am leaning hard towards FUCK THAT SHIT THESE KIDS HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE OR I AM GOING TO LOSE MY GODDAMNED MIND. My conservative parents have been pretty understanding about not being able to hug the kids and have them over, but they will flip if they've had both shots, waited three weeks and still can't see kids.

The kids aren't going to get them sick probably, because the kids and my wife have been very isolated. I get tested once a week. Technically my parents could still get the kids sick?

I can not with this shit any longer.

if i were you, and as long as my vaccinated parents weren't licking doorknobs and going to choir practice in a basement, i would send the kids over.

basically for the reasons under "Can Vaccinated People Spread COVID?"
here https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/post-vaccine-behavior-can-i-go-wild

one of my best friends from high school is an upstanding dude but he has a tendency to spread nonsense rumors, and though usually they're about NFL trades, today he briefly sparked a panic on a FB feed because he said the Orange County Convention Center site ran out of Moderna vaccines and they were replenished with Pfizer only, implying that people who got their first shot as Moderna won't be able to get their 2nd anytime soon (or that they might be given Pfizer's instead).

so he has people freaking the fuck out for their parents on FB, and I found an article that within 5 minutes had the health director indicating they had vials of both. there were literally people in a panic because their parents had been vaccinated there and were about to start a mini-uproar.

granted, I don't BLAME people for being freaked out because this rollout has so far been a complete mess, particularly in Orange County (which is not where my folks got vaxxed). but man I wish people, even close friends of mine, would WAIT to confirm things before they get everybody in an uproar. especially since he probably just overheard something in passing and misunderstood it.

and..the article was from yesterday which is a day after my friend claimed to have overheard there was no Moderna left.

there were also two friends who aren't elderly, but one's a teacher working in a classroom (so she'll be part of 1-B, which is the next phase), and there were extra, leftover doses that were about to get thrown away at a facility (and no more appointments for the day), so they went and got them, and now people are giving them grief.

they were going to go unused if nobody claimed them - i don't get why everything has to have shaming attached to it.

Back to issues with restarting live performance, as it's my field of business and has me terrified, here's some pertinent links that i've been reading lately:

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/cuomo-announces-plan-bring-back-live-events-fueled-rapid-testing
https://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/10070-plan-save-the-arts-in-new-york-broadway-beyond
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/9509810/save-our-stages-act-passage-niva-director-next-steps
https://musicxcorona.substack.com/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/arts/fauci-coronavirus-performing-arts.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qjmuZ11fw

In the UK, I've heard of people administering vaccines being told they can only be vaccinated if people don't turn up to their appointment - that is, if the vaccine has been prepared and is likely to go to waste.

Also, surprised to read (in the Guardian) that a majority support a ban on individuals from different households being able to walk outside together. I'm guessing this isn't a major source of transmission? Perhaps it is?

I'm guessing this isn't a major source of transmission? Perhaps it is?

The more-contagious variant hasn't been around long enough for anyone to get a firm grip on that one way or the other. It is estimated as 50% easier to catch, so outdoor transmission will become more common than it was in the first six or eight months, but who can say if that would be enough to become a significant problem? Just eliminate every unnecessary risk and you're doing all that's possible.

I knew things were bad in the UK but apparently now my in-laws' entire family in the UK currently have COVID

Also, surprised to read (in the Guardian) that a majority support a ban on individuals from different households being able to walk outside together. I'm guessing this isn't a major source of transmission? Perhaps it is?

― djh

I've always thought these kind of restrictions are for them to keep you from doing things you shouldn't do by preventing you from doing things they can verify. Like people from different households are likely to have met at one household, indoors, maybe had a few drinks and then went for a walk. They can't check inside peoples' houses, but they can check public areas.

Thanks, Aimless.

I've been fairly "locked down", I think. Definitely stricter than the guidance has allowed. I guess what I mean is that I'm surprised people are saying they supportive of restricting outdoor walks?

"household group walks" is a rule that cunts who don't care if they kill people can exploit by lying that they're observing it. abolishing the rule means removing cover for the lie.

Sorry to hear that Katherine - hope they are okay.

Something has definitely shifted, in the sense that ... people I know are starting to have Covid, whereas for a long time it was "friends of friends", often with specific circumstances.

also, deaths in the UK are going fucking wild due to ten months of pissweak shithouse rules, a lot of people will probably say they support anything up to armed guards in gasmask delivering food parcels via trebuchet bcz it'll be more effective than any gov't policy to date.

I've always thought these kind of restrictions are for them to keep you from doing things you shouldn't do by preventing you from doing things they can verify. Like people from different households are likely to have met at one household, indoors, maybe had a few drinks and then went for a walk. They can't check inside peoples' houses, but they can check public areas.

― nickn,

Maybe?

Actually, may have lost track of the rules but in my head at least, it's not one household, is it? [at the moment]. It's one individual with a child under five?

Aye, sic.

Was watching one of the press briefings recently where I was expecting there to be an announcement about increased lock down (as above, something that makes me feel shifty while welcoming it) ... and it was just self congratulatory tat about vaccines. Vaccines are brilliant but the messaging is that it will be alright regardless of what you do.

I think localities have gotten far more timid about further restrictions in general. Things have gotten dramatically worse here in the last couple weeks, but there's been very little changed in terms of new rules despite now being at "stage 5".

Think I misread your original post, thought it was multi-household, which could be safe if people were masked and kept their distance. Never mind!

as to sic’s point, the deaths per 1M population have risen in parallel in the US and UK over the last several months, with the US only slightly behind the UK. But in the last couple of weeks the deaths per million in the UK have risen much faster

xp -- so far everyone's OK but I'm worried about the grandfather, who was already in bad health before this

(to be honest they kind of brought it upon themselves because apparently they held a holiday party that was a spreader event, but it still sucks)

Public health guidance is often deliberately stricter than it needs to be on the assumption that not everyone will follow it (a lot of guidance about what you can do during pregnancy is like this). It’s condescending and it undermines trust but they’ll alternatives are apparently worse.

I mean isn't the problem that public heatlth guidance is nowhere near strict enough

given how people I know react to the guidance, in this case that’s my impression

I’m talking about the UK rule about two people from separate households not being allowed to meet in a park.

ah ok, got it, wasn't aware that was a UK rule (in the US we have... nothing like that)

(for context in the US it is a nightmare and impossible to convince someone that it is a risk to be indoors, unmasked, with people you don't live with)

Xxp surely it would be a lot more logical to have the people physically administering jabs be among the first to be vaccinated before coming in contact with an unknown public. Would think that would be obvious to a point of given. Not having them possibly get vaccinated on the chance that somebody didn't turn up.

A friend of mine's daughter is vaccinating people and she was given the vaccine herself before starting which seems sensible

I haven't seen anyone inside in months, even my elderly parents. 95% of my friends are the same way.

Having a masked and distanced walk with a friend outside isn't going to do either party any harm if they're following the rules elsewhere, I guess, is my point.

yeah I don't see how walks with friends become a spreader even

*event

yes things are really bad in uk and there is a pathological insistence - among govt and populace - on accentuating the positive (vaccinations plus a slight dip in cases from our enormous 2nd peak, basically) and refusing to acknowledge the terrible parts (absolutely everything else); this is understandable from ppl trying to kip & get through the winter and unforgiveable from actual policymakers I think

I watched the latest briefing from the independent SAGE panel and it seems clearer than ever what a mess we're in

- cases coming down in all age groups except over 80s which are rising: this is obv the most vulnerable group, the ones who are dying and who we are in the biggest rush to vaccinate so this is a concern. unclear the exact cause of this trend but probably something to do with all the christmas cheer being spread to elderly relatives, & in particular care homes who only required a notoriously unreliable lateral flow test before letting ppl come visit at xmas (there was also a suggestion in the comments that they might be getting infected at vaccination centres, which are indoors & only require 1m distance post jab per guidance). the thing they stressed was that vaccines are great but not enough, you need to have an actual strategy (narrator:)

- workplace infections are surging because thousands of ppl are being made to go to work despite it not being a) necessary or b) safe - legally employers are required to make workplaces "covid safe" but there is no system for certifying this and it has never been enforced. Also many ppl are deliberately not getting tested because there isn't adequate financial support for ppl who have to isolate. call me crazy but stopping ppl going for walks is not a big fucking priority for me.

- schools a prime example of the strategy point above: don't just close them, wait a few weeks and open them again, have an actual plan to make them safe to open (they will never have an actual plan to make them safe to open)

- it's in the news today that we are "considering" managed isolation of ppl coming into the country - weirdly this is being put down to the brazilian variant rather than being something we should have been doing since the fucking start (one of the panel members on friday said that uk & ireland are "almost unique" in not bothering to do this, I will go out on a limb & guess usa one of the few others). the "system" for the last year has been for the person at the airport to say "be good, yeah?" to new arrivals, send them off to get the tube and never follow up ever

- lots more bits & pieces but the thing they were focusing on this week was mental health among young ppl and they had 3 guest speakers, 16yo kids who talked about their experience of the pandemic and how it was affecting their mh. so sad and infuriating listening to them, they have been utterly failed by these cunts & it did not have to be this bad. one was a trans lad who was living on his own at the ymca, had experienced mh issues in the past & made the point that many people in situations like his were already being neglected before the pandemic and it's only got worse. also spoke really eloquently about the strain of living in indefinite stasis at a time of life that is meant to be all about transition, moving to the next stage towards adulthood, which I hadn't considered.

it's all so pointless and tragic. whoops there go another 1400! I feel like there is the general acknowledgement that the next few weeks are going to be "tough" but that too many ppl internalised that "take it on the chin" rhetoric from last spring, like this is just a necessary stage we pass through on the way back to the pub. maybe we'll get another fucking £10 off a ploughman's