Friend Infected With Right Wing Brain Worms - What to Do?

It’s QAnon and conspiracy theories as gateway and they swing right because of accelerationism and not being all that bright.

I've noticed this and def think part of the appeal is they see it the other way around, i.e. we're the sheeple who blindly accept whatever the "mainstream" outlets say.

Healing crystals etc appeal to personal beliefs, you are talking about people who find the scientific worldview very limited to begin with, so...

In the US, a lot of the wellness/bro science/nootropics/etc. world is rooted in an understandable distrust of/lack of access to our healthcare system - therapy and drugs are expensive, maybe this capsule I can buy off Amazon will make my brain work better; the never-ending history of people of color being used as medical guinea pigs; regulatory capture, etc..

Without a broader understanding of the forces at work and some idea of what else is possible, it can trip over the line to unfounded conspiracies pretty easily.

(Also: American Protestantism)

I've always wanted to get a PhD in American Studies just so I can write a book about the connections between New Age spiritual beliefs and white supremacist power structures.

I mean, I could write that book, but I would need funding to do so.

There’s also something about the self-centred nature of the yoga/crystals crowd that aligns with the “fuck you Jack, I got mine” of the Cons.

the Left has dropped the ball on this a little bit by clinging too hard to a relatively-uncritical statism of late as a sort of lesser-evil vs neoliberalism- horrifying how the Right has in so many ways been allowed to present itself as the only alternative to state control while at the same time actually running the state for the most part. that doesn't excuse these right moving libertarian types and the company they've been keeping- but this has been happening for a while, so many 00s/early-10s left circles weren full of antisemitic 9/11 truther stuff which was allowed to fester, many of those people ended up more or less fascist whether or not they still consider themselves leftists, this seems like a continuation of that. I know of a few people who have gone down the deep end on this during lockdown, it's v sad but in retrospect the signs were there

of course plenty of the original fascists had backgrounds on the Left as well as interests in all kinds of proto-wellness/proto-new age type shit so this is the 2nd time as farce edition. maybe the leap from vaguely anti-capitalist to vaguely fascist isn't as huge as many of us would like to think

the responses to this stuff that hold up Science, the medical establishment, the media, the state etc as unquestionable authorities are never going to reach the people in this mindset and are making things worse for the rest of us too

Agreed

I am always amazed at the school of thought which classes teachers as "the government" but considers Trump to be in some way outside the government.

I am always amazed at the school of thought which classes teachers as "the government" but considers Trump to be in some way outside the government.

This is as old as the hills, the peasants have always loved the emperor and hated the administrator, the educator. They love the emperor in part because he is despised by the administrator and the educator. City folks coming here telling us what angle we can wear out hats at, what time to go to bed, what do they know?

I've written about this on 77 and some other threads, but need to know whether I'm being totally nuts or whether my (probably former) friend is in the wrong.

A little more than a month ago, a person I've known for nearly two decades and with whom I recently reconnected after some years of more intermittent communication posted some infamous images related to Burzum, NSBM, and other Neo-Nazi and white nationalist associated stuff to his Instagram story. Disturbed, particularly because he's Jewish, I asked whether he was going to post a swastika next, and also asked whether he was doing okay— tbh, I thought he might be in mental health crisis, given his cocaine addiction and other warning signs.

He responded that the images were just images, and that he didn't think of "art" in the way I implied by my question. I replied that it was a pretty lame excuse for posting those images without context. He then proceeded to wrote to me these exact words: "say what you will about national socialism, but at least it's an ethos." At this point, I blocked him on Instagram and muted his texts. Before I did so, I said that I was very upset with him, and needed space to think and feel through my anger.

Over the course of the next month, he proceeded to enlist numerous mutuals, some of whom he hadn't spoken to in YEARS, to try to engage him in a conversation wherein they would tell him he was right and I was wrong. These friends all refused to do so, and most of them told me what he was doing. He also posted about the incident on Instagram, never mentioning me by name, while making the claim that "the left" and "antifa" types were intolerant enough of opposing views that they'd sever a friendship. He also claimed in these posts that he was writing an essay about fascist imagery— he's a graphic designer by trade— even though he never mentioned as much in the original posts. He then placed the blame on his audience (including me) for not asking about the context behind his posting of the images.

Earlier this week, I wrote him an email that stated that I never wanted to sever the friendship, but that I was very upset with him because his behavior and justification of it were lacking in judgment, and explained to him that the onus of justification for promulgating fascist images is on the one who promulgates it, not the audience. I also went through some semiotics— we went to college together, and he has an advanced degree— and explained how attempting to sever the sign from the signified is not possible with fascist imagery that promotes death, genocide, and destruction. I also told him I cared about him, and was willing to talk about the issue. It was a kind, if critical, email.

He responded with a long, rambling email that was at turns deferential and defensive. In it, he made mention of how I was going through a tough time because of my recent illness (as if to imply that my judgment was poor because I'd had cancer), said that he loved me and cared about me, and then went on to justify his actions while simultaneously playing whataboutism by mentioned Pope.L's pretty awful "Baloney Room" piece, among others. He also mused as to whether I'd "cancelled" Walt Whitman for what he called 'pedogate,' even though that element of Whitman's legacy is only one disturbing fact.

All in all, it was a very odd and oddly conciliatory email. I responded by quickly rebutting one of his claims, saying that we disagreed on many things but that we could talk sometime next week on the phone. He agreed, and seemed to be interested in dialogue.

Late last night, a mutual friend texted me with screenshots of Instagram posts that this (probably former) friend had made...wherein he published his long rambling email to me. The whole thing. For his thousands of followers to see. Again, my name was never mentioned, but by some of the context, it was clear who the email was addressing to anyone who knows what's going on. In essence, he utilized what I assumed would be private communications for his own ends— to gain clout, to shout into the void of his followers, whatever.

The mutual who sent it to me was furious, and I am too.

Should I just tell this guy to fuck off? Should I try to reason with him? Should I just block him without telling him what's going on and move on? Am I acting completely insane by being so totally pissed off at him?

Any advice welcome.

I would choose option 3: block, move on, forget you ever knew him.

I would, I wouldn't, if you prefer, no

wrt option 2 it seems like this go on indefinitely, the emotional manipulation & disrespect for privacy part of it would be dodgy enough even if it wasn't about the nazi stuff

I would choose option 3: block, move on, forget you ever knew him.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, January 9, 2021 10:45 AM

the emotional manipulation & disrespect for privacy part of it would be dodgy enough even if it wasn't about the nazi stuff

Exactly.

Should I just block him without telling him what's going on and move on?

Totally, and not to criticise because god bless yr patience and good intent but that was the way from email #1 tbh

I would maaaaybe have given him some benefit of the doubt to continue to conversation at some point - before he published the email. That's clearly just hurtful game-playing for his own amusement/drama/troll ego. You've done what you can; fuck him off.

Should I try to reason with him?

There seems a good chance that any message you send him will be published to his Instagram followers too, conceivably with personal details attached into the bargain. Option 3 seems the best idea, at least for the time being.

I know that "block and move on" is the sensible and popular choice, but it's so hard to do when you actually have something invested in a relationship. In your shoes I would probably say a parting word about the publishing of private communications as breaking your trust, before trying to move on. But I can't say that doing so is a better idea than silence, I really don't know.

i was going to say you could respond but limit it to like three sentences, but the posting the thing to instagram is crossing the line, a sign he is too irrational and possibly grandiose to make that worth it. he already has your previous emails to look at and understand your position if he ever snaps out of it.

Thanks for the advice, all, and also for confirming that my instincts were correct—

Because of his background and because of how long we've known each other, I perhaps gave this friend the benefit of the doubt for longer than I needed to. He was once one of my best friends, many years ago. So it's just a bit more disappointing than it would be with another friend.

Can't see this one going anywhere. The hope is to nip the brainworms in the bud before they get to this level, but from here it looks rough going.

Sounds like he's aiming to provoke, gain a reaction, do something for unclear reasons, self-destructive

Unless you just don't partake, say "never heard of it" and don't play the game. But it sounds like the game is the point

Emily is right ofc that it *can* be difficult to drop a relationship in which you are invested but short of finally leaving a horrible job there's also very few experiences like it for looking back on a while after and thinking "what the fuck did i hesitate for *there*"

Usual qualifiers that each circ is different and thats only ime etc

ghost that narzi fuck

New development is that I sent him an email that mentioned the Instagram posts that he made, and he contacted our mutuals who saw the posts and could have told me, accusing them of sharing something on his public Instagram profile with me, and hinting at some sort of imagined future action I might take. (He wrote "I don't know what his blocking and unfriending portends.")

He's clearly unwell, but I made the right choice. I'm just sad that he's making a spectacle of this.

This sucks but if nothing else you should rest assured that you shouldnt be second guessing yrself at all

This is the best explanation of the mechanics and appeal of QAnon I've read.

The only part I didn't find convincing is the part where he asserts that there must be some kind coordinated propaganda campaign behind Q (without providing any actual evidence). That sounds a bit like he is succumbing to apophenia himself!

^ THAT is an excellent piece, with explanations that actually explain QAnon's known observable actions very thoroughly and persuasively, as opposed to so many b.s. thinkpieces. whether Q's output is generated by one person or a group, it is most definitely designed to alienate people from all other sources of authority aside from Q or Q's chosen authority figure(s).

How do U.S. intel agencies still not have any idea who Q is

I mean they must right?

i thought it was that 8chan creep who lived in the phillippines

xp you mean what are us intel sources using q for?

Great Twitter thread for ideas on trying to handle this problem

I've received several DMs from friends asking what do to about parents/family members who believe misinformation regarding the election, vaccines and COVID. Here's a research-based thread to help explain the roots of these beliefs and how to (and how *not* to) address them. 1/

— Dr. Danna Young🇺🇸✌🏻 (@dannagal) January 8, 2021

they are up to mainly bad stuff but no I can't imagine how this mess wld be helpful xp

(xp not table's problem specifically, though I sympathize deeply)

Definitely agree in that thread where it says about how being neutral, curious, dumb, open-hearted goes a long way (and, for the most part, aren't these kind of good approaches anyway?)

I think the key part is listening. Its easy to get fixated on being right, but being right is largely irrelevant. I posted earlier about my cousin thinking something about 'socialism', and the instinct is to roll eyes at the ludicrousness, that he has the definition wrong. But does he? Instead of disputing his understanding of the term, why not just roll with it instead?

I've come to see a lot of this way of thinking as metaphorical, and a literalist or tangible mindset doesn't really work.

Their guard is up because they feel we're going to tell not ask, we're going to act like we're smart and they're dumb. We're not interested in what they have to say, we're only interested in telling them what we think.

I know people have mixed feelings on the socratic method or whatever but when it doesn't work I think its more because people don't do it right, you do actually have to be genuine for it to stand any chance

To follow on from that, in thinking about my cousin but also another brainwormed person I know, the metaphorical thing. They're not really hearing the words but more like, the tone?

They have a combative, oppositional mindset, and you have to kind of sit outside that, otherwise you're just the foil. The minute you're fulfilling that role you're reinforcing everything regardless of what you say.

I see this often with covid. Someone will say something about covid, lockdowns, Bill Gates and the other person will say "actually Bill Gates isn't an evil microchip man stupid", and then proceed to do unpaid PR for Bill Gates, and further reinforce everything at the same time. Or what a terrible job people do on TV when put up against people by immediately setting themselves up as an opponent and scurrying around to refute every point like pavlovs dog without thinking about the bigger picture, immediately signalling to people to shut them out

TLDR because I find getting this right quite tricky but it feels like we fall into this trap

Brainworm Person: Necessity is the mother of invention
Logical Big Brain: You know, 'necessity' is a word not a lifeform its not actually capable of having children, not sure if you knew that. Also English is a gender neutral language, so thats also not true

Good posts

yeah

anvil, I do wonder what this approach ends up doing tho. I understand it allows you to keep cordial relations with the brainwormed and to report back your findings here, but has it helped assuage the brainworms in any way?

I'm shaking a bit here. An old schoolfriend, someone I've kept in touch with for a very long time and was always into hippyish alternative healing type stuff has just gone on a big rant about how Boris Johnson has turned the UK into a Communist state; how while she thinks Covid is a real thing the evidence points to fewer rather than more deaths; and has now announced she's quitting Facebook to go on Gab. I know this kind of thing happens all the time and has become a bit of a cliche, but to see it happen to someone I know personally and really had a bit more respect for (healing crystals and magic potions aside), it's shaken me up.

Friends don't let friends be devoured by rightwing brainworms believe in healing crystals
j/k both are unavoidable

There are people I've known in the past who I wonder whether they've gone the crazed hippy route nowadays. Seems to be something that happens with age sometimes - decades of weird reality denial to fit their absurd ideas around reality leads to a lurch over the cliff edge into full Piers Corbynism.

Crazy belief systems are a spectrum tbf

Reality is unbearable for the most part and epistemological contrition hard to achieve.

An acquaintance from progressive organizing circles went askew last summer and started posting that social distancing and stay-at-home policies were evil and would kill our souls like our overlords wanted, and no one could stop her from hugging people, etc. Definitely came out of the blue. I hope it was a reaction to reality and she eventually found other ways to cope.