Fucking Long Innit? The Sandinista Poll

Dug the rabbit hole with it in that year's Nashville Scene ballot comments, but what an awesome album:

I've just gone a little further afield than usual. For instance, The
Sandinista! Project: produced by Jimmy Guterman: covers of the
entire 3-LP set on 2 CDs, by Jon Langford & Sally Timms, Katrina of
Katrina And The Waves, Wreckless Eric, Camper Van Beethoven, Amy
Rigby, Jason Ringenberg & Kristi Rose, Steve Wynn, Willie Nile, Mikey
Dread, Sid Griffith's Coal Porters, Ruby On The Vine (featuring
Myrna Marcarian of Human Switchboard), and a lot of people I never
heard of, many of whom also do some startlingly good stuff, so it's
not just Indie Big/Heard Of Name Placebo Effect, I don't think
(Although some of the no-name people are a little too reverent to the
wordiness of the texts or slowness of The Clash's own performances,
so it's not just lower case no name placebo effect either.) Feeling stuck in the spotlight and the perfectly sealed over image of rebellion,The
Clash tried to break on through to the para-punk world, much of it in living color, but they did so with the limited skill sets of themselves and their tiny coterie, for whole teeming subcontinents of soundmasses, dub etc. The Project's bands wisely delve into one song each. But such rich material, and it's not just,. maybe not mainly the writing, but the groove too, implied and/or realized, to whatever degree: The Clash's version of post-punk goes past the bounds of the recent trend,
yet loops through the experiments of Wilco and The Mekons, back
through the studio-as-instrument stuff to the country and punk phases,
back to Englishmen who were kids in the 60s, and their take on
skiffle, ska, various New Orleans (incl urban cajun), and rural parade
beats, and yeah nascent hip-hop, dub; but where The Clash's vocals and
production could blur into an atmosphere too thin and thick at the
same time, and too tenuous, technically(at least on the original vinyl
and cheap speakers), other artists have picked up where they left off,
without surpassing the basic strengths of these songs, which are
mostly rejuvenated here, and fairly often in a countryoid way. Not
just in terms of energy, or different drugs, but the Clashian
combination of stylistic elements, with transitions in and between
tracks, and the way the album loops back to pick up an earlier
approach, and develop it further (true in the original, but this trib
makes it clearer to me), and their characteristic combination of
seriousness and humor, linear development and dubwise ricochet,
kinetic mass and leaves of grass, as honored here in spirit and
appropriate adaptation, makes them sound at least as right and ripe
for the Double 0s as for the 80s. (Maybe not if this album had come
out in the 90s, which seemed like Austin Powers' preferred memory of
the 60s, at least for lucky millions; sucked to be other billions, but
there you go-go.) Example of how one track builds on another: was
thinking I'd like to hear more of that bluesy fiddle bouncing along
under Jon Langford and Sally Timms's "Junco Partner." Which is a much
better track, all the way through, than the perky-on-cue rhythm, I
mean "riddim" mocking Strummer's dry, take-it-or-leave-it emphasis got
to be (too conceptual, after more than a few minutes, it seems; we get
it already). But in a much quicker already, I'm wanting more from
Langford and Timms, cos this new version is so good, that they've
shown me could be even better.(After writing this, I realized that
the point is in the degree of restraint: the sly old partner knows
he'll never get out of his street beat alive). But then the very next
track does bring out the fiddle's blues and fun more, as Jason
Ringenberg and Kristi Rose get a lot more subtle than they usually do,
by winding with the fiddle, through the long lines of "When Ivan Meets
G.I. Joe," way after the pinball machines have been shut down, no
attempt to improveon 80s sound EFX here, just ease us through the
shadows, til we reach the international tough guy stuff , on passing
posters and screens, and start another turn. (This really seems like
the centerpiece of the whole Project, speaking of those time/style
loops, even though it's only Track 4.) Wreckless Eric's "Crooked
Beat" combines modern technology and 25 years of practice for inspired
woodshed electronics (which sound Orwellian in Bee Maidens' "Mensforth
Hill", like what's probing Winston and Julia's love nest, back in
1984, but also turns out to be the old man's story from "Something
About England," just recognizable as it [life and history] disappear
backwards over said hill, sucked in like spaghetti, or like gristle
between teeth, all of which is country enough for me.) The Lothars'
name might come from 60s' group Lothar And The Hand People, in which
Lothar was a theramin, because a whole patrol of are we not theramin
keep patrolling "The Call Up, " which is a bit like Devo's version of
"Workin' In A Coal Mine" and Neil Young's Trans, but eerier (and more
foregone, far-gone rural-industrial) than either. Speaking of
versions, Tim Krekel's "Version City" is the post-alt.country
mainstream-accessible triumph, pop train song with doppler shift
horns, like Mr. Krekel, an expert Kentucky-to-Music Row commuter,
probably is familiar with (being, for inst, leader of the Octaves octet,
sensibility neighbors of the nascent NRBQ, back when they all started
in Louisville), and fans of Tim McGraw's rusty-vocodered
"Fly Away" really really should hear it too. Sally Timms & Jon
Langford return with "Version Pardner," which seems like mostly
acoustic dub, until tape Sallys sally back again, and one of her has
one hand waving free ("He-e-ey," even if she's still falling forward
and around with that ol' Partner man again).And that's just one more
upside down moment folded into a bouquet of dub, which is still just
trying to take country's ID crisis on a seismic cruise, oowee baby.

nice, thanks, never heard of that tribute comp and I've always got time for Jon & Sally

Yeah, definitely not advocating for cutting anything, just saying that it's so sprawling it is overwhelming. As someone pointed out, it's similar to the White Album in some regards in that the sprawl is part of the journey.

that iirc some of the songs don't feature all four members, or at least all four were rarely in the same room at the same time.

The lineup on much of the album is Joe, Mick and Topper, with Blockheads Micky Gallagher on organ/piano and Norman Watt-Roy on bass. But Mick Jones played the bass on earlier records as often as not, even when Simonon wasn't off starring in Ladies & Gentlemen, The Fabulous Stains.

(Mick put coloured stickers on Paul's frets and taught him the basslines by colour to play live, and even by the time he was writing songs, Joe would have to play bass onstage because Paul couldn't sing and play at the same time.)

Gallagher was already m/l in the band at this point, so it made sense to bring in someone he already played well with (and was great). Those are Gallagher's kids singing the reprises of Career Opportunities and Guns Of Brixton, too. A third Blockhead, Davey Payne did saxophone in addition to regular Clash sax session bloke Gary Barnacle (who brought his dad for trumpet parts! A real family affair).

Tymon Dogg was hanging around the sessions generally iirc - Joe had played in his backing band and they'd squatted together in the mid-70s, and I think a random bump-into in the street led to Joe inviting him to come along.

The bump-into/come-hang-out could act like a sacred message for Strummer. Tymon joined the Mescalaroes full-time after an unplanned meeting two decades later, and Joe and Mick made up when Don Letts bumped into Strummer on the way to the studio during B.A.D.'s second album sessions and said to come with. Joe was anxious that Mick wouldn't want to see him (having told him the first album was shit and he should bin it and rejoin the Clash), but ended up co-writing most of the album, co-producing, and moving into the studio to sleep under the mixing desk for the duration.

My copy doesnt have the insert with any credits so all the players have always been mysterious to me, which seems as it should be for this weird record. Whenever I think of it I always remember Joe's delivery of a line in the Westway to the World doc where hes talking about making Sandinista and he says something like "it was outrageous - it was DOUBLY outrageous... it was TRIPLY outrageous!"

For me the fun game to play with this wasnt trying to edit it down to a double or single LP, but trying to get a perfect triple album out of this and London Calling.

"Lose This Skin" makes a great case for bands to fill out long albums by letting their friends come in with something and be their backing band.

Took me a long time to find out that Den Hegarty (from out of The Darts) is the voice that does the "key to big Ben" bits

An impossible task that broke my brain, but I ranked these tunes in April.

I wonder how Combat Rock would have been received if it had been released as another double album, as planned. The information overload might have been too much for even the biggest fans.
I can only think of Chicago as a pre-CD act that released 3 multi-disc studio recordings in a row, also on CBS.

Umm, Eric Burdon/Animals?

Alfred, you break my heart calling Hitsville UK "meh". It might be partly a novelty, but sign me up for The Clash do Motown any day.

Combat Rock is already a pretty weird record. I have a couple of outtake boots and iirc the unreleased stuff leans pretty hard on more atmospheric experiments.

I only see Love Is by Eric Burdon and the Animals as a double. Then a single album by Burdon and War, then another double by them, so almost. Same with Todd Rundgren.

The Sandinista thread is obviously the best place to discuss Eric Burdon-related releases.

The Sandinista thread is obviously the best place to discuss Eric Burdon-related releases.

new board description.

There was an interview (in Creem, I think) where Jones said one reason for the triple was that the label considered London Calling a single album, contract fulfillment-wise, so they were like, "Fuck it, let's put everything we got out at once." And they hoped it would be considered at least a double.

It might be partly a novelty, but sign me up for The Clash do Motown any day.

Ditto. Headon nailed that groove like few (if any) of his UK "punk" contemporaries could have. Rick Buckler took a decent stab at it on "Town Called Malice," but you could tell it just wasn't in his wheelhouse.

Combat Rock is already a pretty weird record. I have a couple of outtake boots and iirc the unreleased stuff leans pretty hard on more atmospheric experiments.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, January 1, 2021 11:24 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

A bunch of stuff came out as b-sides, and on Super Black Market Clash (CD-era comp). It does lean towards the atmospheric, but there's still nothing in the b-sides/unreleased stuff as weirdly un-Clash-like as "Death Is A Star."

Sometime in the mid-'00s, Jones was approached about overseeing a 2CD Combat Rock deluxe edition, with the idea of recreating the Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg mix and track listing. He turned it down, saying it didn't feel right to release the original mix -- which was all Jones' doing, and which he and Joe fought about -- without Joe around to approve it.

I forget where they ended up, but stuff like "Cool Confusion," "Kill Time"/""Idle In Kangaroo Court" and the instrumental "Walk Evil Time" would have been pretty solid additions to Combat Rock. Was it on ILX that I learned there were versions of some Combat Rock stuff with Ranking Roger on vocals? Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nSrKBFWviU

And this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UEQu6wkS28

Which is to say, if they wanted to get as goofy as Sandinista! they probably could have padded it out with some leftover great tracks, weird experiments and other odds and ends to at least get it to a double.

There are comments on the "Rock The Casbah" youtube clip from Ranking Roger (who I'd forgotten had died in 2019):

Well we used a studio i think in notting hill.
Mick Jones was with me and a couple of engineers.
We took the original 24 track and took the lead vox out.
Anyway,it was not allowed to be let out to anyone,althouh i gave the late John Peel a copy of it (R.I.P.)
but......yes,I guess you could say it was a demo waiting approval i guess.
Thanks for letting people hear what could have been a remix,if it was finished.
Better some than none!
Respect!
RR :)

Nice to see this cut up here.
I recorded this for the Clash in London around 82-3 when the clash and the beat toured quite a bit in the U.S.A together.
I also did a toast/rap over red angel dragnet which i have
not heard since.
I did it as a one take in the studio.The Clash split up shortly afterwards so it was never released.
What you guys are hearing here was just a rough mix for us to go away and listen too.
it was never finished.

Hello again,I do not have a digital copy of a 24 track master no. Those backing tracks were and still are,very well protected,i was invited as a guest just to freestyle and see what happened. A lot of it came from the top of my head and I think you can sort of hear it in the track. It was just a guide vocal so I could get more ideas. Then The Clash broke up but we still kept in touch. For the people who saw The Clash and The Beat or The English beat in America on the same bill,would have seen a

Jealous that there are people who saw the Beat and the Clash on the same bill.

I listened to that Clash podcast narrated by Chuck D., and my favorite episode was about the making of Sandinista! — just the whole sense of this kind of non-stop party in the studio in Manhattan, with people dropping in at all hours and somebody always messing around putting something on tape. It made sense of the album for me and made me appreciate it even more.

That sounds awesome. I'm finishing up Life and Death on the New York Dancefloor and the references to "The Magnificent Dance" led met to that track, then to Sandinista! I am just fascinated by this whole period in NY.

those Ranking demos are lovely to hear, ta Josh

Alfred, you break my heart calling Hitsville UK "meh". It might be partly a novelty, but sign me up for The Clash do Motown any day.

― Jimi Buffett (PBKR),

Too compressed, which doesn't help Ellen Foley's non-singing.

yeah hitsville's weird muddy mix has always made it hard for me to love. 'the card cheat' does a better job with that sound imo

u ppl have no heart, "Hitsville UK" is fab and unique

("The Card Cheat", which I love, has a way louder and more triumphant sound imo)

Hitsville is all about that stiff drumbeat

also extra love for

"when lightning hits small wonder
it's fast rough factory trade"

so good to listen to on a long drive. see also Songs In the Key Of Life and just about every double, triple, etc album.

"The Card Cheat" is an homage to Phil Spector, not Motown, right down to the "Be My Baby" drums, multiple pianos and the wall of saxes playing the same lines.

listened to this on my walk today. "up in heaven" is my favorite clash song of all time

I always thought The Card Cheat was a nod to Springsteen (in his Spectorian mode).

yeah i hear card cheat as spector-via-springsteen, but idk i guess i compare them bc they both have a ton going on in the mix, and i think card cheat pulls off sounding grand and urgent without being too busy, while hitsville has always just sounded like a plodding soupy mess to my ears, with the xylophone and doubled monotone vocals and everything else all taking up space in the middle. when i think of motown, before i even think of specific beats i think of really great mixes with every instrument in just the right place, which i dont get from hitsville

btw those ranking roger demos are fucking great! his rock the casbah remix should have been the b side, crazy that never saw the light of day. (although the bside that happened, "long time jerk", is also one of my fav combat rock outtakes)

listened to this on my walk today. "up in heaven" is my favorite clash song of all time

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson)

Rob Sheffield's too

the general vibe of sandinista is white album as hell but that song specifically is like a post-punk fleetwood mac "the ledge" to me

more like "Think About Me" but yeah

more like "I Know I'm Not Wrong".

I had no idea Tymon Dogg wrote and sang another song with the Clash c. "Combat Rock:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=famxzR7Gyxs

Played and wrote the piano part for "Death is a Star," too, though didn't get writer credit.

Weird, I've never heard or heard of this, either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_of_St._Louis_(album)

Also search for "Janie Jones and the lash" then.

Extra weird, that one I know of.

I am more obsessed with this album than I have been with a "classic" album in a long time. I've had rotating songs bouncing in my head for weeks now, currently Rebel Waltz and Something About England. I just got a supposedly near-minty copy of it at the local record store. My preamp is being serviced and probably will be for another month so I have intentionally stopped streaming it so I can listen to the vinyl afresh when I get the preamp back.

It's so fucking long it's really hard to digest, but there is great stuff on here that's as good as any of their other albums and if you paired it down to a single or double it would be amazing. But what to cut?!

Jones is kind of right about his "Arctic stations" joke - if you've got a lot of time to fill, like a long-ass car ride or day-long chore, it's pretty fucking great having this play in the background. I never tire of it in that context. But for active listening, it gets to be a chore in spots, especially towards the end. Adapted from what I have on iTunes/my phone, I'd prefer this double LP:

DISC ONE

Side A:
The Magnificent Seven 5:25
Hitsville U.K. 4:17
Junco Partner 4:49
Ivan Meets G.I. Joe 3:12
The Leader 1:32
Something About England 3:40

Side B:
Rebel Waltz 3:22
Kingston Advice 2:34
Charlie Don't Surf 4:52
Somebody Got Murdered 3:27
One More Time 3:30
The Street Parade 3:25

DISC TWO

Side C:
Lightning Strikes (Not Once But Twice) 4:48
Up In Heaven (Not Only Here) 4:25
Corner Soul 2:40
Lets Go Crazy 4:20
If Music Could Talk 4:33
The Sound Of Sinners 3:57

Side D:
Police On My Back 3:14
Midnight Log 2:07
The Equaliser 5:45
The Call Up 5:15
Washington Bullets 3:48
Broadway 5:47

and then a bonus 45 of "Lose This Skin"/"Career Opportunities" (the kids remake)

With the rest (mostly dubs), I'd like to hear them together as a separate album - I imagine it being a fine LP for someone to toast over.

I think the full on flow and sprawl (dubs and versions included) is essential to appreciation of the record as intended, that being said the sequencing there is very nice

It's long, but it's only maybe 10 minutes longer than "Speakerboxxx/The Love Below."

It's long, but it's only maybe 10 minutes longer than "Speakerboxxx/The Love Below."

In similar fashion (if I listen to Speakerboxxx then The Love Below), it gets to be a chore for me in the back half. I LOVE that album (or those albums?) but Big Boi's half is pretty tight, maybe the best work he's ever done, while The Love Below is REALLY uneven to me. I want to say if they cut it down to one CD, it would've been a tremendous, stone-cold masterpiece, but it would probably make Big Boi's work less cohesive if you drop in the handful of gems from The Love Below.