The Dr. Morbius Memorial 2020-2021 MLB Hot Stove Thread

i understand why TB made the deal, and by 2023 or 2024 their team will almost certainly be better for it. but i don't think winning a pennant and then immediately dealing your (inexpensive) best pitcher is a healthy thing. there's no prize for having the best farm system or most 'financial flexibility'.

mostly i was thinking about how i related to MLB when i was a kid, though. i had a favorite team, but having favorite *players* was more important to me -- someone you were excited to see come to bat or get a start. tampa is very smart and does what it does very well, but if i were a kid with a blake snell shirsey, it wouldn't really be comforting to know that the rays got a good return that will pan out in three years.

there is good economic sense in running your team (or league, or sport) like a hedge fund, but i think it -- yes, like destroying the minors -- tends to discount the reasons why fans care in the first place.

I would be more disappointed if they gave up on a bat. They're very good at identifying pitching talent. They already lost Morton so they kind of needed to reset. It's not like Rays fans go to the games anyway.

feeling that post, mp

somewhat bittersweet display name you’ve got now given the context :/

They needed to reset because they lost one pitcher? Who they easily could've resigned with all the money they hoard?

I think it was smart but it was definitely very Marlins-esque

I've been bemoaning the financial realties of the game for at least since the Dodgers traded Piazza; I hung on to the notion of face-of-the-franchise players long past its expiry date.

(As someone whose posts are littered with typos--and I don't have the excuse of a phone--"shirsey" is HOF.)

Naturally, I just found out a shirsey is an actual thing! (which I clued into on my own...hmmn, shirt + jersey).

A “shirsey” is definitely the biggest financial investment a Rays fan should be making in their favourite player these days.

I asked my friend, a Montrealer and Expos-fan-turned-Rays-fan what he thought of the trade and it really is such a perfect response I wanted to share it here

"It was inevitable, I kinda figured he was gone during the playoff run. So in that sense, I was not disappointed. I was more pissed that they didn’t re-sign Charlie Morton.

"That said, it sucks. I followed the Rays because of some sort of kindred spirits (read: my deep psychological trauma) with the Expos; in fact Tampa has perfected the Expos (front-office) Way. I hate that the only pyrrhic victory I can enjoy, it’s that small-market team philosophy won — from MTL to OAK to TB — but it came at the expense of killing the sport I loved. The shift, the launch angles, the rising fastballs, the acceptance of K’s, the openers.. they’re working, the underdogs have finally won and they’ve broken baseball.

"Good to pretty good return for Snell. Can’t wait until they trade Luis Patino after HIS Cy Young. Maybe this time they can do it from Montreal for full symmetry."

bob nightengale is saying the yu trade is on, but it's bob nightengale so grain of salt i guess

saying yu/victor caratini for davies and 4 other guys, none of whom are top prospects

if this happens....what a fun team this is gonna be

The other two are Ismael Mena and Yeison Santana. https://t.co/Ks9GPmsw6E

— Jeff Sanders (@sdutSanders) December 29, 2020

buncha teenagers

I love Caratini. Underrated catcher, and worked with Darvish.

i understand why TB made the deal, and by 2023 or 2024 their team will almost certainly be better for it. but i don't think winning a pennant and then immediately dealing your (inexpensive) best pitcher is a healthy thing. there's no prize for having the best farm system or most 'financial flexibility'.

mostly i was thinking about how i related to MLB when i was a kid, though. i had a favorite team, but having favorite *players* was more important to me -- someone you were excited to see come to bat or get a start. tampa is very smart and does what it does very well, but if i were a kid with a blake snell shirsey, it wouldn't really be comforting to know that the rays got a good return that will pan out in three years.

there is good economic sense in running your team (or league, or sport) like a hedge fund, but i think it -- yes, like destroying the minors -- tends to discount the reasons why fans care in the first place.

I agree with all that. Had the same reflexion for all those young Red Sox fans who just adored Betts.

I was recently thinking that a Cal Ripken probably could not happen today and it's very sad. Clubs with big financial power can sustain keeping a Kershaw or a Trout for the entirety of their careers, but they are few, and some don't even care (Red Sox and Betts being the best example).

That being said the strategic elements of sabermetrics (shift, opener, launch angles) haven't broken baseball yet, if baseball is broken, it is really because a bunch of owners have decided to pinch every penny possible from the players.

Naturally, I just found out a shirsey is an actual thing!

they may be called shweaters in canada

are there other examples of a pitcher being traded along with his personal catcher?

the rays didn't have fans long before they started being the modern iteration of the rays circa friedman. i suspect there's as many rays fans who buy into the idea of the team as a forward thinking pump and dump machine as there are ones who desperately want the franchise to hold onto blake snell or chris archer or evan longoria. the cynicism of it is undoubtedly grating but until the league in general reorients itself so that teams don't have 6 years of control over every player it's not going to change.

i think with the way free agency has gone recently & this year in particular the union will have a real incentive to try and seriously rearrange the rules of the league. you def can't expect modern day billionaires to start caring about things like sentimentality -- the system needs to be changed so players are more accurately compensated for their value, which means more money in the early years of a player's career and less at the end. of course
the union would never have a reason to want this rearrangement when teams were happy to give out billions of dollars to players 28 and older but that seems to be changing now. that said it will also require the players to be strong as a union bcuz the owners have figured out how to have their cake and eat it too -- don't pay players when they're young or when they're older. it might require strike level organization and fortitude from the union and that might be asking a lot, realistically.

are there other examples of a pitcher being traded along with his personal catcher?

i could be misremembering, but josh thole/ra dickey? they were packaged together, i assume bc thole caught dickey

boston traded doug mirabelli to the padres and then got him back a month later because no one else could catch wakefield

Mirabelli is not remembered fondly in SD:

https://www.gaslampball.com/2015/10/18/9563827/doug-mirabelli-birthday-padres-red-sox-kevin-towers

The Padres are in line for a top 3 payroll next year. Unprecedented times!

sounds like your standard mid-00s red sox player

josh thole/ra dickey?

nice one

JOSH THO

LE

David Ross/Jon Lester iirc

It’s one thing for the Rays and their small market to blow it up, but the Cubs? Really? They just won the division.

but they don't have any moooooooooooooooooneeeeeeeeeeeeeey

spent it all on stopping the steal

cubs projected rotation as of right now, per fangraphs: Kyle Hendricks, Zach Davies, Alec Mills, Adbert Alzolay, and Colin Rea

i am liking steve cohens vibe

Hey , Give the Padres credit. They had a top 5 farm system that gave them flexibility to trade for Snell. Newsflash, the Mets farm system needs to be replenished .

— Steven Cohen (@StevenACohen2) December 29, 2020

Happy New Year to everyone except a rod

— Jose Canseco (@JoseCanseco) January 1, 2021

Which Rod, Jose? Stewart? Gilbert? Blagojevich?

cubs projected rotation as of right now, per fangraphs: Kyle Hendricks, Zach Davies, Alec Mills, Adbert Alzolay, and Colin Rea

― na (NA), Tuesday, December 29, 2020 8:56 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

update, the cubs have released colin rea

The New York Mets are deep into talks on a deal to acquire Francisco Lindor from the Cleveland Indians, sources tell ESPN.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 7, 2021

The full Mets-Indians trade involves six players switching teams, per sources.

Mets receive: Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco

Indians receive: Amed Rosario, Andrés Giménez, Josh Wolf,
Isaiah Greene

— Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo) January 7, 2021

wow.

are the mets good yet?

To hell with the Dolans

Also, I thought we were done with that franchise name.

not for another year, because ... ??

it's so weird that this noncompetitive marketplace makes it very easy for teams that actually want to get better to improve

i like giménez but that doesn't seem like a great return

cleveland payroll is now under $40m

Not bad, Mets! Who's going to play 3B? Davis?

Ugh. Goddamn this sucks. We all knew it was coming but it still sucks. Can Dan Gilbert please buy the Indians ffs? Poor people should not be allowed to own professional sports teams.

Sorry :(

We've been there though.

MLB managing to ruin francisco lindor... is nothing sacred

sweet jesus!

Also, I thought we were done with that franchise name.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, January 7, 2021 1:01 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it has a lot of unfortunate connotations, but I think they should stick with it at least until they leave Queens

Sad to see Gimenez go, but seems like a good deal! At least not as risky as the Brodie blockbusters.

Not bad, Mets! Who's going to play 3B? Davis?

they were trying for Bryant too. not sure if landing Lindor means they're out now or not.

I was talking with my nephew (Yankees fan) and he just reminded me that LaMahieu is still out there. Maybe Springer is asking too much and they go for the upgrade at 3B instead of CF.