School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

We have Sonos all over the house, purchased in pieces over the last 5 years or so. So far, they've all been good, give or take some bugginess now and then. I'm no audiophile, so the sound is good enough for me, though not perfect.

Alba: no no, please, i'm wondering if i am able to make this stuff sound practical! It is for me but I like tinkering and not throwing away electronics. There are many variants of the tiny "squeezelite" program for all sorts of computers, so anything from a phone to a desktop computer can be the hookup for your amp/speakers. Basically like a Roku for a non-"smart" TV.

Unfortunately the community wiki page is out of date, so it's not going to mention the Material Skin and stuff, but it should still be useful to get a picture of what I'm on about. https://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Beginners_Guide.html

I'd ignore any mention there of Logitech's cloud service as it's basically just some streaming radio links at this point. You will want one of your devices running the server software - it can also be a player. If starting from scratch, a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 is fine as a server. I'm using an 8 year old laptop hooked up to my living room system as the server. It stays on so that any player in the house can always access the music.

If I somehow haven't talked you out of having a go, I'd say grab the server software from https://www.mysqueezebox.com/download , optionally point it at a folder full of MP3s, and explore the plugin options for internet music once it's running.

The Squeezelite player software for computers is at https://sourceforge.net/projects/lmsclients/files/squeezelite/ (any other devices, have a Google or search the relevant app store).

For controlling, the Material Skin is great on computers and phones (no more need for installing certain Android or iOS apps).

Forums are at https://forums.slimdevices.com/ ... not much use before getting started, though there's photos of systems and projects and all that

I decided after several years of Sonos envy that I was not going to jump into that ecosystem because I didn't want to drop all the money on all the components for a distributed system in one go and the recent hardware swapout made me feel that that was the only viable path to join since there was no longer a guarantee or expectation that I could build out a system over 2-3 years and then my parents sent me a pair of One SL speakers for Christmas, so now I am looking at a subwoofer and TV soundbar because fuck it, you got me

For the regular stereo advocates: what sort of component do you recommend for translating from your iPhone/streaming devices to the stereo? Or do most receivers nowadays have that functionality built in?

Try a basic 3.5mm to RCA stereo adapter with the phone's volume on max. If it's a newer one with no headphone jack, you can use the lightning to 3.5mm dongle as an intermediary. Fancier receivers with USB audio input (as opposed to a USB socket for reading flash drives) may be able to take the raw data stream from the phone and then use the receiver's audio processing.

Or yknow, Bluetooth? :)

I mention this every time, but you can still find Chromecast Audios online it basically gives me sonos functionality for what I need

for like $80 for two

Where can you find them now? I got a couple for my parents, they were a great value. If you're just looking to play internet music to a system (or systems), yeah they can't be beat. The audio quality is good and if you ever want an upgrade in that regard, the port doubles as an optical audio out.

Isn't Bluetooth lossy in a way that Sonos isn't suppposed to be(?) And if you jack yr phone directly into a stereo, you need to keep walking over to the rig to make adjustments?

(I was a big stereo guy, but finally ditched it after barely having a chance to use it for years; and I'm leaning toward Sonos as a small step back in, for size/ease reasons -- but can be convinced otherwise)

yeah, though AptX or LDAC Bluetooth are really good. It's possible they can be better than a wire, depending on the audio processing of the data source vs the receiver.

Wiring in and controlling remotely, something like Spotify's Connect feature can be used to tell other devices to play the music to the phone.

Chromecast Audio or Sonos or the Logitech Server, your phone is telling those to go and get the music, so it doesn't matter then where your phone moves to.

I guess i like the Logitech thing so that Spotify is just another source... i can insert tracks from it among my own files, other services, whatever. All one interface. And when the playlist stops, it can turn on NTS or whatever. You know, endless tinkering

Would be happy to try and answer "i just wanna do x" scenarios

I just wanna have great sound with as minimal fuss and as few components / small a footprint as possible; for streaming from wherever, and ideally a way to plug in a CD player and turntable (when I own those again).

Yeah, that's exactly what I want. But I guess the fact that there will always be a ___ to RCA or ____ to 3.5mm adapter no matter what new devices come out helps.

xpost..
ebay though they might be a bit more expensive now

I run mine via optical to a DAC then stereo amp, does 192 Qobuz great

Curious about Bluesound Node multi room systems, Sonos gives me such Bose/Beats by Dre vibes it makes my teeth itch

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Chromecast-Audio-Media-Streamer-Black/114089304887?epid=217053957&hash=item1a9040a337:g:dnYAAOSwx-9Wtzhe

It seems like I need to focus more on the stereo I want and then figure out the "how to connect x to stereo" as the last step.

i’ve said it here before but a second-hand Airport Express (second gen) connected to the AUX jack on my stereo works fantastically for me. i could put a second one upstairs, connected to some powered speakers, but i don’t think i’ve ever wanted or needed to send music to other floors of the house so eh

I've basically gone the all-separates route here (my speakers use an Amptastic Mini 1... RCA in, speaker out, the end - but it's tiny!) along with a basic 8 input RCA switcher (non-powered)...

But I'll have a look later on at what i might get if I went all in one. I know there's some super high end stuff that comes "Roon Ready" but that is some high priced Logitech Server type thing that I'm just not going near.

man alive just buy the chromecast, that does exactly what you want. you're not streaming from your phone either, the device does the streaming. it goes direct in to any stereo and you just connect and control via whatever music streaming service it's so simple

that was xps to morrisp

Nice source, thanks ums!

Back later :)

i wonder if Google will ever stop supporting this discontinued product though?

so far so good

thankfully they are still making chromecasts in general (that do video and audio) and it seems to use the same interface (CCA just doesn't do video) so hopefully that should continue

I don't think any of this streaming audio tech is exactly rocket science at this point

ooh also though I have an Android phone so I guess I should say idk how it works on iphone but I can steam to the Chromecast from my macbook just fine

thanks to both. yeah, I don't want to go all high-end, either (needs to be reasonably $$)

ums otm about Chromecast Audio; that product delivered far too much value for its price point to stay on the market long ... I have a couple of CCAs attached to stereo receivers in different rooms and enjoy being able to play music from Spotify or my Plex server on both simultaneously

I use my iPhone with the CCAs and that works fine ... maybe once a month or so I have to reboot a device; ordinarily I just turn on the stereo, tell Spotify or Plex to send audio there, and control it with my phone

if I didn't have an old-fashioned stereo system with a decent audio receiver and speakers but I did have a home theater system with a decent audio receiver and speakers, I might buy the current-model Chromecast for ~$30 and use that to play Spotify and other streaming audio services ... it might seem a little weird to turn on the TV to listen to music, but the audio quality would be fine, and seeing album cover art on the big screen is kind of fun

respect to maffew12 for making Logitech Media Server continue to serve; I loved my Squeezeboxes, which worked beautifully for years, but keeping LMS on good terms with Spotify got beyond my tinkering skills after a while

I'm still using my Chromecast Audio and it works perfectly. Side question: can I stream my television audio to it, or sou,d I need a soundbar/separate speaker?

I just did a test, playing a YouTube video on my Chromebook and casting sound to the Chromecast Audio on my receiver ... the audio played on my big speakers and the video played on the Chromebook

but I don't believe there's a way to send a video signal to your television and split off the audio portion of that signal to go to a Chromecast

lol thanks Brad. It was a hard thing to recommend when Spotify was half busted, the user interface looked like 1995, and phone control required its own app (all it was really good for was organizing of your own files), but these have really come along.

morrisp:
I was curious to look at some all-in-one receivers (you just add speakers and any physical media sources). Criteria:
-Stereo (not surround)
-Built-in preamp for a turntable
-Decent headphone output
-Some internet capability (basically, can it be a player in Spotify Connect)
-HDMI ports (easily hook up a TV and, say, a Raspberry Pi, this way you wouldn't have to buy a fancy audio processor for the Pi)
-Bluetooth
-a few analog audio inputs besides

Just getting all that done decently well...
What's coming up on a few sites is the Marantz NR1200. 600 US dollars. It's not the good Bluetooth but that's minor if you are doing internet streaming mainly. Can't turn up any info on running fancy headphones off of it, but probably is fine for anything that isn't very high power. I'm kinda surprised to see all those features at that price from one of the bigger hifi brands.

re “streaming from wherever”.. i tried using, gulp, plex to handle my music and plexamp on my phone and.... it’s pretty great?? no way to export my itunes playlists that i can see but it does give you some default playlists based on i.e. record label, recently added etc. it also remembers playback position!

wherever you are, for your files, yeah. I read morrisp as saying streaming from whatever sources, to a living room situation?

I've got Plex going (same old laptop as the Logitech stuff) but just for video. I'm not going to get into the unspeakable things I do for out of the house. I hope I've been some use today lol

yes i think you're right about that. once nice thing about the plex server is that it can run alongside whatever else you're using (if you want) - you just point it to your Big Folder Full Of All Your Music and it will deal with it

man alive, listen to ums.

also, maffew12 is right that a lot newer integrated amps have DAC's included (DAC = the thing that processes a digital signal like from Spotify to something your amp can send to your speakers). Another option is the NAD C 328. Not sure it has the HDMI, but its got optical out.

Same price as the Marantz; both respected budget companies.

I read morrisp as saying streaming from whatever sources, to a living room situation?

That is what I meant... thanks, guys.

xp
ooh sleek. No internet and no turntable preamp though. Sounds like it has the nicer headphone amp section.

Anything that is receiving and playing digital music for you by necessity has a DAC. This NAD amp is giving you just the DAC to play with, without any built-in source for it to play anything... which is really what an audiophile would want (if not a separate DAC device). Without HDMI there, your laptop or Pi or whatnot would need something added onto it to pass audio data as optical or coaxial digital to the NAD's DAC. Chromecast audio can do this, and some Macbooks... otherwise you're looking at another pricey piece to add on. I guess optical has its advantages over HDMI or USB but that's just a bridge too far for me...

Though these amps sound pretty impressive for their price (from what I remember last time I looked), you can get pretty killer speaker amps, headphone amps, and DACs for $100 US apiece these days.

reminder that a used Airport Express, while not much chop as an access point or network extender, can receive a lossless stream from any Apple gear including a phone / iPad and put it out as optical digital or 3.5 audio (of great fidelity, in the case of the last model: https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm )

Yeah, lack of an optical audio out was a huge surprise when I got my newer Apple TV a year ago. My older one had that.

almost all the new receivers do hdmi arc now, and they just don't decide to care about compatibility w/other stuff

I have zero Atmos-capable speakers but I'm still mildly irritated the weak link in my TV -> TV -> Sonos Amp scheme is the TV. I think the ARC stuff over HDMI has to support the specific passthrough type?

I wound up buying a Sonos Move because I wanted to be able to listen to music in multiple rooms as well as outside without spending thousands on a multi room speaker setup. It’s honestly pretty good. Obviously it’s not going to do what a great stereo system does but it has more of the depth of a real speaker than any portable I’ve heard and a lot of clarity. Way better than any Bose garbage

last sentence should be Sonos' tag

does anybody actually have Bluesound? it's made by the same people that make NAD which seems interesting. certainly looks slick and has most of the streaming services integrated.

No direct experience, but in the audiophile forums I follow (to some degree) they are frequently cited as very good products to use as a music server (as DAC/streamer for Spotify, etc. and as a file server/streamer for mp3s, flacs, and other files). At higher ends, most use an outboard DAC but continue to use the Bluesound as the streamer.

No idea if Sonos or Google is chiefly to blame but the Google Assistant integration is pretty bad. We have two speakers and a chromecast on our network and you when you ask one of the speakers to play music it says "I'm sorry I can't do that here" so you always have to say 'hey google play music ON SONOS'. If you ask it to play a song it often plays a cover or other weird version that is absolutely not in the top search results on Spotify. It doesn't do volume normalising, you can't ask it to shuffle. And the sensitivity is rubbish, sometimes you have to ask it three times, sometimes it makes the 'i'm listening' bleeps when you've said something that doesn't sound anything like 'hey google'.

I decided after several years of Sonos envy that I was not going to jump into that ecosystem because I didn't want to drop all the money on all the components for a distributed system in one go and the recent hardware swapout made me feel that that was the only viable path to join since there was no longer a guarantee or expectation that I could build out a system over 2-3 years and then my parents sent me a pair of One SL speakers for Christmas, so now I am looking at a subwoofer and TV soundbar because fuck it, you got me

Best Buy gave me a 10% discount for my birthday so I now have a Sonos surround system set up ^_^

My Squeezebox 2 stopped working when I dusted it, so I bought a new power supply and it's back up and running... I stockpiled a few remotes a couple years ago, but I probably need to look into buying a couple used Squeezebox Touches to preserve the viability of my ecosystem

Huzzah!

You can probably get sorted on https://forums.slimdevices.com

i got my first hardware players last year (two Radios) but having physical buttons for this whole fuss not really such a big deal... my use of this stuff will probably outlive the gadgets.

they pop up on eBay with some frequency for around $100 (generally missing the remote and power cord)... there are many options for building RasPi-based Touch clones, but the parts for those still cost more than a used Touch

There was a big lot on the forum recently. A lot of users seem to offer up there before resorting to eBay.

I spend a lot of time there messing with server plugins but I've never checked out the marketplace threads... thanks!

oh yeah what are your favorite plugins? I've pretty much stopped tinkering.