Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

Is it Beefheart on "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" (which makes me want to listen to The Firesign Theatre) or Jimmy Carl Black?

I had never heard that before abt Bowie stealing Belew from in the wings

that seems a v Bowie move

Iggy's such a good storyteller

Yes. I didn't remember that particular detail. There is some other story about them all being in a restaurant and FZ freezing out AB iirc.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/david-bowie-frank-zappa-adrian-belew/

http://forum.zappa.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26957
Which links to https://www.facebook.com/AdrianBelew/posts/10150589290144995

Here's the original Adrian Belew post:
https://www.facebook.com/AdrianBelew/posts/10150588871654995

The radio in Detroit wasn't that great, but nowhere near as bad as it is now. You could hear the Beatles, Stones, Ronettes, Wailers, Booker T, early Motown, Jackie Wilson, the Kinks, and other good stuff on CKLW, the Detroit AM station, but you had to be patient and listen to lots of shit like Peter and Gordon, Freddie and the Dreamers, Leslie Gore, Frankie Avalon, etc. to hear what you liked.

I have a soft spot for the first two acts as well.

At his best, Zappa's work has a tension between respect for the "mystery of music" and cynicism about the potential manipulativeness. When Frank parodies something, the subtext is that HE is the one letting the listener hear the truth while the subject of the parody is in fact the cynical one. He's a little like Godard in trying to reveal the mechanisms behind the art to enlighten the audience.

a little

i mean i dont think this is an awful comparison but it isn't one that leaves frank looking good

Sure, Godard is one of the greatest filmmakers ever and Frank is in his weird niche.

swap out maoism swap in fart jokes, sorted 🎸 😃

Spotify's This is Frank Zappa playlist starts off with the execrable Bobby Brown Goes Down, which seems like a pretty terrible ice breaker for a curious listener in 2020

tbf not sure a playlist, whether created by a person or algorithm, is any kind of ice breaker for dude's music to begin with

Lol, Mark.

lol so i played thru all five FZ items on the spotify alg (all bad sorry frank) and the next item that came up was "little house i used to live in (piano intro)", as played by the meridian arts ensemble on an LP *so* tailored towards me that it's called ANXIETY OF INFLUENCE lol (=music by zappa debussy barber), which is a bit of a (what bloom wd call) CLINAMEN aka SWERVE to be sure, follwoed by something from THE YELLOW SHARK (1993)

i mean my alg is my fault obv and sux to be me but so far (like 12 songs in) apart from one song or section from tYS i've had *nothing* in my FZ selection but orchestras ploughing thru his works making them sound like try-hard nothing-special pastiche of (better) early 20th C "serious" music (with bits of film ST thrown in now and then)?

at least he's not singing i guess

sorry i don't know why i'm doing this, it's irritating for actual fans i know

it's irritating for actual fans

(Frank from grave): "Mission ... accomplished ... "

sorry i don't know why i'm doing this
Pandemic Holiday etc. stress induced search for novelty as a Way Out, perhaps?

i switched to the "new" kraftwerk joint that just dropped and am currently exploring which corners of my flat don't have wifi or bluetooth coverage as i clean it

I saw Walter Boudreau's Dangerous Kitchen chamber group in 1996. I thought it was incredible at the time, although tbf I was 17.

Duh, I can't believe I forgot about the smallest slice of the Venn diagram between Zappa, prog and jazz: Chester Thompson. Played with Zappa from '73-'75, subsequently joined Weather Report for a bit, then was hired by Genesis and Phil-solo based on Phil's appreciation for his playing with Zappa.

after i ran through his discog this summer, i made a 50-minute playlist intended both as a representation of what i think is his best work and also as a semi-approachable zappa primer. it is almost entirely instrumental aside from the roxy tracks iirc https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4GmFgY6pZynEqNquwTESju?si=0PlUD-2NSRSf3bOS7QD7iw

both and also??? you heard it here first

anyway my playlist is good

good title. but no Watermelon, Pound for A Brown, Blessed Relief, St Etiene, RNDZL, or Black Napkins?!

The Village > Arf > Wash triptych is sorta like Frank's Help > Slip > Franklin huh?

rndzl and black napkins were cut from earlier versions of the playlist bc i wanted to make it short

"watermelon" ruined somewhat by being embedded in the story of joe's garage

oh "blessed relief" was on there too, just felt like too much wazoo with "eat the question" as well

right on. solid primer

The Village > Arf > Wash triptych is sorta like Frank's Help > Slip > Franklin huh?

― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 25, 2020 12:19 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

also, good call, no wonder they're my favorite zappa and dead things respectively

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzA1VOiC-M

Sorry, I can’t even look at the titles.

(my life in BradNelson neatly pointing me an unexpected way into 60s colossi i have kinda given up on getting and lazily hate out of habit as much as anything)

A hard habit to break though.

NO SINGING is a very important factor

starting the playlist off with a brief fusion jam called "i promise not to come in your mouth" is me acknowledging there's no such thing as an accessible zappa primer

he really is the guy who dug an entirely different tunnel out of the 50s -- via stan freberg lol -- that paid no fair mind to just about anything that came afterwards (except maybe some TV themetunes and cokerock production techniques)

(i even feel like he got to "fusion" via his own route tbh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDowitqL1Rc

https://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Jeff_Beck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H84WlVbCCdo

Music streaming sites are great for exploring artists like Zappa who have way too many albums. Imagine being a die hard fan in the 70s like “aw fuck now I gotta go buy Joe’s Garage vol 2 and 3?”. It broth to mine how much it really sucks that very little of Zorn’s stuff isn on the streaming services because it would be even more ideal for gettting into his work. .

*brought to mind

I really don’t see how you can hold your head up high as a Zappa fan without an appreciation of Joe’s Garage Volumes 2 and 3.

The only salvageable track from the whole trilogy is on Vol. 3!

I agree! I meant before the album is coming out and your the type who buys everything. There are probably better examples.

Maybe I shouldn’t go there but perhaps FZ is not all bad if disdain for or at least indifference to or suspicion of him can unite such disparate posters as unperson, sinkah, Tom D, veronica m, to name but four.

I consider Packard Goose into Watermelon Hay the highlights. “Only salvageable” is a stretch although there are embarrassing lyrics you have to be willing to overlook/compartmentalize. Catholic Girls is a brilliant pop song if you like Ariel Pink imo

Zappa is just dated. There’s nothing all that special about the suspicion of or unwillingness to embrace that..