Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

Thanks, I was after a new screen name!

the only music that real strippers will ever dance to

one time I was in a strip club during the day meeting my roommate and his workmates. it was deserted and the stripper was just sitting on the stage, drinking a Dr. Pepper through a straw and listening to "Silent Lucidity" by Queensryche

Can strippers dance in 13/8 time?

Those deserving of posterity certainly can.

those with deserving posteriors

They are the same ones iirc.

Hard to dance to guitar solos in odd time signatures.
Ha! xpost

There are so many chops monsters these days. In fact, I've often argued that the average kid (thanks to youtube and the like) is probably more proficient in their instrument than at any time before. I mean, you can find little kids shredding on line, or doing crazy drum stuff. There's not really a commercial outlet for that kind of stuff, but it is by definition kind of specialized. The last time there was a commercial place for it was probably back when dudes like Vai were playing bullshit in Whitesnake, or the guy from Ratt (a huge Zappa-head, iirc) was doing, well, Ratt. The exception being technical/prog/whatever metal, which, sure, can be culty and obscure, but not always; you still get bands like Tool filling arenas almost *exclusively* based on their chops. I think the key is finding something *interesting* to do with those chops rather than just showing off how fast you can play, because there are more than enough nerds already going that route and it's about as impressive in the end as a hot dog eating competition.

re: whether the guy would be into prog-metal; my guess is that he would be okay with it, but he's dismissive of stuff that has arisen from or is abetted by the internet, and believes that be-bop era to the time when super chops guitar began to get a bad name via Cobain to be the peak of human achievement…

“Anyone who can't dance to John Coltrane can't dance “ -Basquiat

My brain keeps giving me further iterations of reasons why I ultimately steer clear of this guy, but I feel like posting them on this thread would be uncharitable, like shooting fish in a bunghole.

One thing I could say is that I like to think that I like some things that are primitive as well as other things that are sophisticated, but tend not to like things that call attention to themselves in kind of an obnoxious way as in: see how smart I am, how hard I work, how talented, how much I practice, not like those other morons. On the flipside I do like things that are, um, smart about being super stupid like, say, The Monks, or... hey, look what I found https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/iggy-pop-on-early-van-morrison-and-frank-zappa-mothers-of-invention-567661

Now playing catchup and listening to Iggy associate the late Robert Sheff aka "Blue" Gene Tyranny .
https://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/blue-gene-tyranny-1945-2020

Throughout his life Sheff approached music as a means to investigate perception and memory, and to expand our understanding of what human consciousness may involve. Making music, he confides in Bernabo’s film, is “a way of deeply informing myself that there’s another world”.

Just listened to one FZ tune I sort of like as penance before I continue.

Now listening to another one but, as is often the case I'd rather listen to the original (as I hear it) of what he is mocking. So "Son of Suzy Creamcheese" makes me want to listen to The Cowsills.

Is it Beefheart on "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" (which makes me want to listen to The Firesign Theatre) or Jimmy Carl Black?

I had never heard that before abt Bowie stealing Belew from in the wings

that seems a v Bowie move

Iggy's such a good storyteller

Yes. I didn't remember that particular detail. There is some other story about them all being in a restaurant and FZ freezing out AB iirc.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/david-bowie-frank-zappa-adrian-belew/

http://forum.zappa.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26957
Which links to https://www.facebook.com/AdrianBelew/posts/10150589290144995

Here's the original Adrian Belew post:
https://www.facebook.com/AdrianBelew/posts/10150588871654995

The radio in Detroit wasn't that great, but nowhere near as bad as it is now. You could hear the Beatles, Stones, Ronettes, Wailers, Booker T, early Motown, Jackie Wilson, the Kinks, and other good stuff on CKLW, the Detroit AM station, but you had to be patient and listen to lots of shit like Peter and Gordon, Freddie and the Dreamers, Leslie Gore, Frankie Avalon, etc. to hear what you liked.

I have a soft spot for the first two acts as well.

At his best, Zappa's work has a tension between respect for the "mystery of music" and cynicism about the potential manipulativeness. When Frank parodies something, the subtext is that HE is the one letting the listener hear the truth while the subject of the parody is in fact the cynical one. He's a little like Godard in trying to reveal the mechanisms behind the art to enlighten the audience.

a little

i mean i dont think this is an awful comparison but it isn't one that leaves frank looking good

Sure, Godard is one of the greatest filmmakers ever and Frank is in his weird niche.

swap out maoism swap in fart jokes, sorted 🎸 😃

Spotify's This is Frank Zappa playlist starts off with the execrable Bobby Brown Goes Down, which seems like a pretty terrible ice breaker for a curious listener in 2020

tbf not sure a playlist, whether created by a person or algorithm, is any kind of ice breaker for dude's music to begin with

Lol, Mark.

lol so i played thru all five FZ items on the spotify alg (all bad sorry frank) and the next item that came up was "little house i used to live in (piano intro)", as played by the meridian arts ensemble on an LP *so* tailored towards me that it's called ANXIETY OF INFLUENCE lol (=music by zappa debussy barber), which is a bit of a (what bloom wd call) CLINAMEN aka SWERVE to be sure, follwoed by something from THE YELLOW SHARK (1993)

i mean my alg is my fault obv and sux to be me but so far (like 12 songs in) apart from one song or section from tYS i've had *nothing* in my FZ selection but orchestras ploughing thru his works making them sound like try-hard nothing-special pastiche of (better) early 20th C "serious" music (with bits of film ST thrown in now and then)?

at least he's not singing i guess

sorry i don't know why i'm doing this, it's irritating for actual fans i know

it's irritating for actual fans

(Frank from grave): "Mission ... accomplished ... "

sorry i don't know why i'm doing this
Pandemic Holiday etc. stress induced search for novelty as a Way Out, perhaps?

i switched to the "new" kraftwerk joint that just dropped and am currently exploring which corners of my flat don't have wifi or bluetooth coverage as i clean it

I saw Walter Boudreau's Dangerous Kitchen chamber group in 1996. I thought it was incredible at the time, although tbf I was 17.

Duh, I can't believe I forgot about the smallest slice of the Venn diagram between Zappa, prog and jazz: Chester Thompson. Played with Zappa from '73-'75, subsequently joined Weather Report for a bit, then was hired by Genesis and Phil-solo based on Phil's appreciation for his playing with Zappa.

after i ran through his discog this summer, i made a 50-minute playlist intended both as a representation of what i think is his best work and also as a semi-approachable zappa primer. it is almost entirely instrumental aside from the roxy tracks iirc https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4GmFgY6pZynEqNquwTESju?si=0PlUD-2NSRSf3bOS7QD7iw

both and also??? you heard it here first

anyway my playlist is good

good title. but no Watermelon, Pound for A Brown, Blessed Relief, St Etiene, RNDZL, or Black Napkins?!

The Village > Arf > Wash triptych is sorta like Frank's Help > Slip > Franklin huh?

rndzl and black napkins were cut from earlier versions of the playlist bc i wanted to make it short

"watermelon" ruined somewhat by being embedded in the story of joe's garage

oh "blessed relief" was on there too, just felt like too much wazoo with "eat the question" as well

right on. solid primer

The Village > Arf > Wash triptych is sorta like Frank's Help > Slip > Franklin huh?

― Paul Ponzi, Friday, December 25, 2020 12:19 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

also, good call, no wonder they're my favorite zappa and dead things respectively

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzA1VOiC-M

Sorry, I can’t even look at the titles.

(my life in BradNelson neatly pointing me an unexpected way into 60s colossi i have kinda given up on getting and lazily hate out of habit as much as anything)