Kansas!
― that heat (Matt #2), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:43 (three years ago) link
And, er, Starcastle?
I always thought so, yeah. Didn't even think it was controversial tbh. xp re prog
― They sold me a dream of Christmas (Sund4r), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:44 (three years ago) link
Lol ums.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:44 (three years ago) link
Hmm, I never thought about the lack of US prog. Maybe we kind of favored the primitivists over the musical prigs. I guess the closest is, yeah, midwest butt-prog stuff like Kansas, Styx ... REO Speedwagon?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:49 (three years ago) link
the best U.S. prog band is Cheer-Accident but they aren't really from the same era
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:52 (three years ago) link
Yeah, books usually attribute it to things like the Anglican choirboy tradition and/or the greater cultural presence of classical music in Europe.
― They sold me a dream of Christmas (Sund4r), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:54 (three years ago) link
xpost Oh, for sure once you fast forward a few decades there are good or better examples, many also from the midwest.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:54 (three years ago) link
I think prog bands found a larger and more enduring audience in North America, though.
― They sold me a dream of Christmas (Sund4r), Monday, 21 December 2020 22:55 (three years ago) link
Kansas, absolutely. I've never listened to early Styx or Journey (which is sposed to be more fusoid), but my understanding is that they were indeed cornfed midwest —thank you JiC— BUTT PROG! I have heard early REO and that's just bog standard boogie…
― veronica moser, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:56 (three years ago) link
Zappa's spiritual emptiness problematises the notion of him as a prog avatar
― Left, Monday, 21 December 2020 22:57 (three years ago) link
Thought that was going to be a pomenitul post.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:05 (three years ago) link
There’s a tendency to describe proggy US acts of that era as ‘experimental rock’, or so it seems to me.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:07 (three years ago) link
Saw that Alex Chilton was on that Downtown Beatles record. Always think of him, along with the Lou Reed, as the kind of prickly problematic artist who interacts with and sometimes baits their audience in a way that is more interesting to me than the FZ approach.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:07 (three years ago) link
Debate Topic:
Was Frank Zappa progressive rock?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown),
"Inca Roads" yes, "T'mershi Duween" yes, "five-Five-FIVE" yes, "Village of the Sun" no, "Jelly Roll Gum Drop" no...
― Motoroller Scampotron (WmC), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:09 (three years ago) link
Inca Roads is the closing track on Rhino's 5 CD box set Supernatural Fairy Tales: The Progressive Rock Era.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:13 (three years ago) link
"Jelly Roll Gum Drop", that's another good Zappa song!
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:15 (three years ago) link
...the only North American artiste on the Rhino box set unless you count Peter Blegvad as part of Henry Cow/Slapp Happy.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:16 (three years ago) link
Zappa fans tend to be resistant to calling him prog, his singular talent being bigger than any genre etc.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:17 (three years ago) link
Renaissance were from America
― frogbs, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:18 (three years ago) link
xpost So, basically how someone like Tony Banks probably thinks of themselves.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:18 (three years ago) link
All five of the musicians on their debut are described as English by Wikipedia. I know the two members from the Yardbirds were.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:23 (three years ago) link
Renaissance weren't American!
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:24 (three years ago) link
Noodly gearhead musos in the States in the 70s tended to end up playing fusion not prog, I think?
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:27 (three years ago) link
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:35 (three years ago) link
Yes, that's a keeper too.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:40 (three years ago) link
Ah you’re right, Renaissance are currently in America but definitely didn’t start there
There are definitely some pretty good US prog bands but not during Zappa’s time...I agree that Rundgren was probably the closest that wasn’t a straight knock off
― frogbs, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:43 (three years ago) link
Renaissance, like Foghat, were one of those rare UK bands that meant a lot more in the States than their homeland, so people think they're American. No idea what Zappa thought of Genesis/ELP etc, was it discussed upthread? I'd imagine he despised prog the same way he seemed to despise everything that wasn't written by him or Varèse.
― that heat (Matt #2), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:47 (three years ago) link
There's some months when you're not gonna find good Zappa songs as much as other months. There's some months when you're gonna find a lot of good FZ songs, and if you average it out, you do find more than two good songs a month
― Motoroller Scampotron (WmC), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:50 (three years ago) link
(xp) Hey, he liked Johnny 'Guitar' Watson too.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:51 (three years ago) link
A lot of the fusion bands of the '70s have their roots in jazz, though, or at least a lot of the times Miles specifically: Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Lifetime, etc. They kind of bypassed rock entirely. Iirc folks like Larry Carlton claimed to have literally no knowledge of or affinity for rock music. The British prog stuff, those dudes all came from a conventional rock background, by and large, afaict, fwiw.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:53 (three years ago) link
I remember reading somewhere that he liked the German prog trio Schicke Führs Fröhling.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:55 (three years ago) link
I assume Zappa hated prog, if he was familiar with it at all. But to my knowledge he never outright parodied it, which is fine, because even the best prog bands often did a fine job doing that themselves!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:55 (three years ago) link
He could never write something as amazing and on point as Karn Evil 9 if that’s what you’re getting at
― frogbs, Monday, 21 December 2020 23:57 (three years ago) link
He liked Brian May's guitar playing, if that's any use.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:58 (three years ago) link
Or maybe his sound.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Monday, 21 December 2020 23:59 (three years ago) link
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:06 (three years ago) link
Surprised Queen haven't gone the hologram tour route a la FZ, or maybe they did and I missed it. Once you've decided to flush your legacy down the bog there's no end to it, may as well go the whole hog.
― that heat (Matt #2), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:11 (three years ago) link
Frank Zappa’s 30 favourite songs as played on BBC RADIO 1 in 1980:
‘I’m In The Music Business’ – Jeff Simmons‘Straight Lines’ – New Musik‘The Closer You Are’ – The Channels‘Hyperprism’ – Edgard Varese‘Jesus Just Left Chicago’ – ZZ Top‘Golden Birdies’ – Captain Beefheart‘I Live In A Car’ – UK Subs‘Soul Motion’ – Don Harris‘All Tomorrow’s Parties’ – The Velvet Underground‘Royal March’ – Igor Stravinsky‘Iron Man’ – Black Sabbath‘Lucky Number’ – Lena Lovitch‘Eureka Springs Garbage Lady’ – GTO’s‘Killer Queen’ – Queen‘Mannish Boy’ – Muddy Waters & Johnny Winter‘Jerry and the Holograms’ – Jerry and the Holograms‘Sweet Home Alabama’ – Lynyrd Skynyrd‘Robot’ – Plastics‘Desiree’ – The Charts‘I Am The Walrus’ – The Beatles‘Soldier Soldier’ – Spizz Energy‘Heaven Is In Your Mind’ – Traffic‘I’m Working For The Federal Bureau Of Narcotics’ – Wild Man Fischer‘Paint It Black’ – The Rolling Stones‘Caravan Man’ – Lew Lewis‘Psycle Sluts’ – John Cooper Clarke‘I Asked Her For Water And She Brought Me Gasoline’ – Howlin’ Wolf‘Summertime Blues’ – The Flying Lizards‘My White Bicycle’ – Tomorrow‘Grease’ – Franki Valli
― everything, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:37 (three years ago) link
Here's the show: https://www.mixcloud.com/mrsgillespie/frank-zappa-as-dj-at-bbc-radio-1-star-special/
― everything, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:41 (three years ago) link
huh.
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:44 (three years ago) link
I didn't know he had such good taste, you'd never guess from his records.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
Kind of an interesting and unexpected list
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:55 (three years ago) link
you could have given me 1 million guesses and I'm not sure UK Subs would have passed my lips
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:00 (three years ago) link
lol, Tom D.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:01 (three years ago) link
I knew he'd namechecked the UK Subs before.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:01 (three years ago) link
I'm most surprised by the Velvet Underground tbh.
― Eggbreak Hotel (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:02 (three years ago) link
First tune has a minor blues turnaround which harmonic cliche I guess was all right with him.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:03 (three years ago) link
Feel like there was some end-of-the-line sitcom logic by which the Mothers/Velvets Verve/Tom Wilson feud ended up in some sort of diplomatic rapprochement if not an actual bro-hug.
― Whamagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 01:06 (three years ago) link