Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

You would have to be quite the fan to drink a can of beer depicting a guy sitting on the john.

A fitting tribute to the man, his music and his myth.

I will say "Why Does It Hurt When IPA" rolls off the tongue so poorly it could've been conceived by the man itself

Ha, exactly!

Joe's Garage is now a Sports Bar.

...or Crab Shack.

America Drinks and Stays Home.

there was a Joe's Garage restaurant in Minneapolis for years, nice place

Debate Topic:

Was Frank Zappa progressive rock?

Thought that was going to be a pomenitul post.

i'm trapping imagos for their pelts

He is the closest thing to an american prog avatar that exists… Rush in the 70s takes the cake as far as North america… but who else comes close as a stateside prog big shot? Todd, via A wizard and Utopia? Or Crack the Sky?

Kansas!

And, er, Starcastle?

I always thought so, yeah. Didn't even think it was controversial tbh. xp re prog

Lol ums.

Hmm, I never thought about the lack of US prog. Maybe we kind of favored the primitivists over the musical prigs. I guess the closest is, yeah, midwest butt-prog stuff like Kansas, Styx ... REO Speedwagon?

the best U.S. prog band is Cheer-Accident but they aren't really from the same era

Yeah, books usually attribute it to things like the Anglican choirboy tradition and/or the greater cultural presence of classical music in Europe.

xpost Oh, for sure once you fast forward a few decades there are good or better examples, many also from the midwest.

I think prog bands found a larger and more enduring audience in North America, though.

Kansas, absolutely. I've never listened to early Styx or Journey (which is sposed to be more fusoid), but my understanding is that they were indeed cornfed midwest —thank you JiC— BUTT PROG! I have heard early REO and that's just bog standard boogie…

Zappa's spiritual emptiness problematises the notion of him as a prog avatar

Thought that was going to be a pomenitul post.

There’s a tendency to describe proggy US acts of that era as ‘experimental rock’, or so it seems to me.

Saw that Alex Chilton was on that Downtown Beatles record. Always think of him, along with the Lou Reed, as the kind of prickly problematic artist who interacts with and sometimes baits their audience in a way that is more interesting to me than the FZ approach.

Debate Topic:

Was Frank Zappa progressive rock?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown),

"Inca Roads" yes, "T'mershi Duween" yes, "five-Five-FIVE" yes, "Village of the Sun" no, "Jelly Roll Gum Drop" no...

Inca Roads is the closing track on Rhino's 5 CD box set Supernatural Fairy Tales: The Progressive Rock Era.

"Jelly Roll Gum Drop", that's another good Zappa song!

...the only North American artiste on the Rhino box set unless you count Peter Blegvad as part of Henry Cow/Slapp Happy.

I always thought so, yeah. Didn't even think it was controversial tbh. xp re prog

Zappa fans tend to be resistant to calling him prog, his singular talent being bigger than any genre etc.

Renaissance were from America

xpost So, basically how someone like Tony Banks probably thinks of themselves.

All five of the musicians on their debut are described as English by Wikipedia. I know the two members from the Yardbirds were.

Renaissance weren't American!

Noodly gearhead musos in the States in the 70s tended to end up playing fusion not prog, I think?

"Jelly Roll Gum Drop", that's another good Zappa song!

Yes, that's a keeper too.

Ah you’re right, Renaissance are currently in America but definitely didn’t start there

There are definitely some pretty good US prog bands but not during Zappa’s time...I agree that Rundgren was probably the closest that wasn’t a straight knock off

Renaissance, like Foghat, were one of those rare UK bands that meant a lot more in the States than their homeland, so people think they're American.
No idea what Zappa thought of Genesis/ELP etc, was it discussed upthread? I'd imagine he despised prog the same way he seemed to despise everything that wasn't written by him or Varèse.

There's some months when you're not gonna find good Zappa songs as much as other months. There's some months when you're gonna find a lot of good FZ songs, and if you average it out, you do find more than two good songs a month

(xp) Hey, he liked Johnny 'Guitar' Watson too.

A lot of the fusion bands of the '70s have their roots in jazz, though, or at least a lot of the times Miles specifically: Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Lifetime, etc. They kind of bypassed rock entirely. Iirc folks like Larry Carlton claimed to have literally no knowledge of or affinity for rock music. The British prog stuff, those dudes all came from a conventional rock background, by and large, afaict, fwiw.

I remember reading somewhere that he liked the German prog trio Schicke Führs Fröhling.

I assume Zappa hated prog, if he was familiar with it at all. But to my knowledge he never outright parodied it, which is fine, because even the best prog bands often did a fine job doing that themselves!

He could never write something as amazing and on point as Karn Evil 9 if that’s what you’re getting at

He liked Brian May's guitar playing, if that's any use.

Or maybe his sound.

There's some months when you're not gonna find good Zappa songs as much as other months. There's some months when you're gonna find a lot of good FZ songs, and if you average it out, you do find more than two good songs a month

He liked Brian May's guitar playing, if that's any use.

Surprised Queen haven't gone the hologram tour route a la FZ, or maybe they did and I missed it. Once you've decided to flush your legacy down the bog there's no end to it, may as well go the whole hog.