Beer in the new era

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Oof, 3 Floyds is permanently closing its Indiana taproom, though it doesn’t seem to affect their beer production.

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 22:04 (three years ago) link

I'm not even sure what "closed permanently" means anymore. Basically "closed until further notice," I guess, because there's nothing to stop them from reopening once the pandemic passes, right? Anyway, there are murmurings that as one might expect more was going on than just the pandemic. They recently did a massive expansion, too, didn't they? Or had planned to? Hopefully this allows them to focus entirely on the beer and build the coffers back up until they figure out the next move.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link

Aw, damn. I guess that explains the context for this tweet...

Not sure who needs to hear this, but when a brewery announces it is closing, and you feel it necessary to say how “their beer sucks anyways” - you, person sharing this thought with the world in this very particular moment, are the one that sucks. ✌️

— ABV Chicago (@ABVChicago) December 16, 2020

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 22:24 (three years ago) link

3 floyds starting to distribute to new markets isn't an amazing sign for them

call all destroyer, Thursday, 17 December 2020 01:04 (three years ago) link

FWIW I’ve noticed their stuff finally seems to be in stock locally, even Zombie Dust

frogbs, Thursday, 17 December 2020 01:06 (three years ago) link

xp so them spreading out is more like a desperate move?

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 17 December 2020 04:41 (three years ago) link

I had Upper Hands' BA stout tonight, it was slightly basic but also really good, much better than say dragon's milk

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 17 December 2020 04:42 (three years ago) link

i think entering a super-saturated new england market is a way to get a one-time bump but is not very sustainable. 3 floyds, toppling goliath, bells, founders, pipeworks, and one or two more largish brands now fight for like 1-2 fridge doors in the largest beer store near me. how's that going to go long term?

call all destroyer, Thursday, 17 December 2020 04:46 (three years ago) link

*largish midwestern brands

call all destroyer, Thursday, 17 December 2020 04:46 (three years ago) link

xp makes sense

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 17 December 2020 04:48 (three years ago) link

@CAD the last few years in February we have been getting The Alchemist in distro (Heady Topper & Focal Banger).

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 17 December 2020 13:30 (three years ago) link

I don't know how it works, but I get the impression sometimes it's as simple as a small brewery just taking a road trip and dropping stuff off, sort of an informal distribution. That's how I figure stuff like, say, Other Half makes it out here once in a while, or stuff like Hop Butcher here making it to other places. And these guys are, by and large, pretty small potatoes. Like, Pipeworks? How big can Pipeworks be? They do produce a lot of varieties of beer, but that's its own strategy: keep pumping out new stuff weekly lest you lose that coveted spot on the shelf.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 December 2020 14:03 (three years ago) link

Why not just come out with a Barf Flavored IPA?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpdZEt2W4AUBtsS?format=jpg&name=large

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 December 2020 18:37 (three years ago) link

lol I would actually try one of these. But yeah.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 17 December 2020 18:38 (three years ago) link

four weeks pass...

3 floyds starting to distribute to new markets isn't an amazing sign for them

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:04 PM (four weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

really? i have been happy to have zombie dust in the nyc area

treeship., Thursday, 14 January 2021 01:54 (three years ago) link

sad to read on this thread they had to close their taproom. hopefully they open one day.

i came here to post about pills mafia by thin man brewing company in buffalo. the pilsner is a humble style, but when done right there is nothing crisper. this is so much better than a pilsner urquell but it hits the same notes, without the weird aftertaste of that one.

treeship., Thursday, 14 January 2021 01:56 (three years ago) link

xp it's great for you, the out of market consumer. it might not be great for them, business struggling to stay afloat.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 01:59 (three years ago) link

@CAD you'd be surprised at what's starting to get national distribution these days.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 14 January 2021 02:04 (three years ago) link

lol i very much doubt it. tough times out there.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 02:10 (three years ago) link

mikkeller closed down their new york city spot at citi field. i was crushed. one of my favorite summer spots

treeship., Thursday, 14 January 2021 02:12 (three years ago) link

I’m still struggling to understand how Three Floyds expanding their distribution is supposed to be a sign that they are about to go under. If this was some new brewery with their reach exceeding their grasp, I’d get it. But they’ve been around long enough and pretty slow to get to this point, so I have to imagine they have a little bit of a clue what they are doing. They’ve been expanding their facilities a lot on the last five years, so I feel like this has been the goal anyway.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 14 January 2021 03:03 (three years ago) link

- noted brewery spends years selling at capacity to their midwestern market to the point where at one time their regular production beers were desirable in trades
- brewery expands, creates taproom, embarks on various other growth projects
- pandemic hits
- brewery closes taproom, lays off employees
- concurrently, brewery enters new, highly saturated markets with old-ish stock of regular production beers
- brewery enjoys cash flow from novelty purchasers who if they are anything like me bought one six-pack of zombie dust when it entered distribution and haven't really considered buying their beer since
- hmmm does this sound like a sustainable model?

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 03:15 (three years ago) link

They closed their brewpub, not their giant brewing facility, afaik. I mean, there were cases of 3 Floyds in Costco last time I went, I assume they are doing OK making beer, just maybe not as well making burgers and pulled pork sandwiches.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 January 2021 03:16 (three years ago) link

i'll check in with you guys later but the only reason in 2020 for a brewery of their size to drastically expand distribution is because it has excess stock and needs to try and move it.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 03:18 (three years ago) link

i saw this exact thing play out with smuttynose who was brewing at capacity and expanding to the midwest, until they weren't, got sold, and barely survived as a brand

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 03:19 (three years ago) link

I suspect the same thing is going on with Toppling Goliath, which is now in California.

nickn, Thursday, 14 January 2021 04:12 (three years ago) link

I posted this in the TJ's thread but is v. topical:

Toppling Goliath has been in California for a while, I mean they are even in Japan. I had a reasonably fresh Pseudo Sue can in Tokyo last autumn... for ~$10 though.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, December 6, 2020 12:25 AM (one month ago)

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 14 January 2021 04:44 (three years ago) link

I hadn't seen them in SoCal until a couple months ago.

I tried the Pompeii IPA first, good but not superlative. Bought some Pseudo Sue after and I get the reputation, though tbh, I think there are as good beers out there.

nickn, Thursday, 14 January 2021 05:32 (three years ago) link

I don't know shit about 3Floyds other than it was a name 4 years ago and now no one gives a shit. So I trust cad's take.

there were cases of 3 Floyds in Costco last time I went, I assume they are doing OK making beer,

Having stock sitting around in big box stores is a bad sign, not a good sign.

Jimi Buffett (PBKR), Thursday, 14 January 2021 14:23 (three years ago) link

Not sitting around, recently added, afaict. I'd never seen it there before. But, like, most craft or craft-ish beer "sits around" on shelves, doesn't it? Anecdotally, the only stuff I see moving in noticeable numbers is the usual Bud/Miller/Coors stuff. However, my wife works with one of the big beer companies, and as I understand it beer sales are way down for everyone, for a variety of reasons, so I assume that's extra hard for the large craft breweries. But I have no idea.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 January 2021 14:30 (three years ago) link

But, like, most craft or craft-ish beer "sits around" on shelves, doesn't it?

No, not ideally. Part of cad's point is their stuff previously sold out instantly; now, not so much.

Jimi Buffett (PBKR), Thursday, 14 January 2021 14:50 (three years ago) link

FYI, I've bought less than a case of beer in the last three years from a distributor/retail store. Everything is direct from a brewery these days.

Jimi Buffett (PBKR), Thursday, 14 January 2021 14:52 (three years ago) link

In my very limited experience, the only 3 Floyds stuff that ever sold out instantly was Zombie Dust, or at least locally that's the only one that was ever hard(er) to find. It's only the small or very limited stuff from any brewery that seems to vanish overnight. If there's a beer that I can literally always find on the shelves, then I assume to some extent it's been sitting around, if only compared to the stuff that *doesn't* sit around. But yeah, Zombie Dust was the only one that ever flew off shelves or was tougher to get, as far as I ever noticed, which seems more an exception than the rule. Bourbon County Stout (for example) used to fly off the shelves, too, but now it sits around as well, for months, and I don't think that's a sign that Goose Island is struggling. At the same time, like I said, all beer is struggling, so sure, it's possible 3 Floyds will go under or implode, like Ballast Point did.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:06 (three years ago) link

FFF and other "metal" beers seem passé at this point. Like I was at the store and saw their \m/WAR PIGS\m/ brand and wondered who was buying it these days.

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:12 (three years ago) link

FYI, I've bought less than a case of beer in the last three years from a distributor/retail store. Everything is direct from a brewery these days.

― Jimi Buffett (PBKR), Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:52 AM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah, this is a paradigm shift and it's bad news for a lot of the bigger craft breweries

call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:17 (three years ago) link

Idk, anecdotal, obviously, but the two retail stores I hit up around me both say beer is flying off the shelves. They both do curbside pickup, delivery and a system where they list everything on the windows and do transactions from the door. Every time I've been there or walked past, there almost always is a line of 3-4 people waiting, even during weekday lunchtimes.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:22 (three years ago) link

My local hype brewery has gone from extremely long lines at their remote brewery location (100 minute drive outside of my city) to overnight delivery plus limited distribution of cans/bottles to various specialty beer shops in my neighborhood.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:29 (three years ago) link

Yeah, local craft delivery has been amazing. I always went at off hours and didn't sweat not getting every new hyped release, but not having to drive into NYC has been sweet.

Jimi Buffett (PBKR), Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:35 (three years ago) link

Hill Farmstead (probably the best brewery in the USA), has expanded their delivery area to Vermont, Pennsylvania and Virginia.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:40 (three years ago) link

It's paywalled, but here was an interesting local article:

The owners of Skeleton Key Brewery in Woodridge are working on a beer called "Plan for Everything." It is inspired, of course, by 2020.

Most of the suburban brewery's revenue before the pandemic came from its taproom, says co-owner Emily Slayton. Now, besides a few intermittent pints served on the patio, all of Skeleton Key's beer is canned and sold for at-home consumption.

Though it is making about the same amount of beer, the brewery is losing money, Slayton says. Profit margins are smaller on canned beer than draft.

Such is the case around Illinois, home to 286 of the nation's roughly 8,275 craft breweries. Bars and restaurants have been closed for indoor dining since October, and the reopening of concert and sports venues is not yet on the radar.

For craft breweries that sold beer to those establishments and have seen their own taprooms close, the situation has been a shot in the heart. Brewery owners wonder how much longer they can hold on.

"Can I make it through to March? Sure," Slayton says. "Beyond that, I don't know."

Closures throughout the industry could reach far in Illinois, which ranked 16th in the nation for craft beer production in 2019, according to data from the Boulder, Colo.-based Brewers Association. Craft breweries in the state generated almost $3.4 billion in economic impact and produced 421,809 barrels of beer that year.

So far, COVID-19 has not caused the onslaught of closures in the craft beer industry that it has in the restaurant world. Bart Watson, chief economist at the Brewers Association, tracked nine Illinois brewery closures in 2020, up from eight in 2019.

Watson expects that number to rise.

"I don't think we should confuse not dying with being healthy," he says. "The combination of pivoting strategy, to-go, some government support . . . has helped many at least kind of eke out existing this year."

To be sure, consumers have not stopped drinking craft beer. They are buying it at stores instead. Craft beer sales are up in stores about 16 percent year over year, according to research firm Nielsen. But those increased sales aren't nearly enough to make up for the loss of closed taprooms and restaurants.

Hopewell Brewing used to bring about 35 percent of its revenue through selling draft beer to bars and restaurants. Another 30 percent came from sales at its own Logan Square taproom.

"We loved being the pale ale or the IPA or the lager at a corner bar," says co-founder Samantha Lee. "That's really how we found our strength as a small business in a really competitive craft field in Chicago."

Hopewell has launched new revenue streams. It sells canned beer, merchandise and other local goods from a shop in its closed taproom. Still, Lee expects 2020 revenue to be down at least 15 percent from the $1.8 million it brought in during 2019.

Gross profit is likely to be down 45 percent, given the costs of packaging materials needed to can all of its beer.

"We can't keep operating this way. We're not profitable," Lee says. "Each time there's assistance or aid coming from the government it's literally just buying us time."

Nielsen has estimated that the U.S. alcohol market needs to sustain 22 percent volume sales growth across all booze categories to make up for the losses at closed bars, restaurants, sports stadiums and concert venues. The growth numbers, at about 13 percent, are not hitting the mark.

Craft brewers are hit the hardest by this slump, experts say. While grocery store shelves are dominated by domestic beers, craft brewers' business models are built around their taprooms and sales to bars and restaurants.

Sales to bars, restaurants and other venues account for less than 20 percent of revenue for the total beer industry, says Watson from the Brewers Association. That number rises to about 40 percent for craft breweries.

Furthermore, craft brewers without the distribution partnerships or production capacity to supply grocery or liquor stores likely aren't benefiting from increased sales in stores, says Danielle D'Alessandro, executive director of the Illinois Craft Brewers Guild.

When it comes to grocery shopping, consumer behavior has also shifted. People are shopping at fewer stores and browsing less, gravitating toward brands they know.

"If you didn't build your reputation for your brewery before COVID, it's really tough," says Josh Deth, founder of Revolution Brewing. "There's no sampling . . . so you can't try out new beers as easily. It's hard on the innovation pipeline."

Revolution typically releases new draft beers for people to try at its own bars and others, Deth says. Revolution's Logan Square brewpub is closed indefinitely, and its taproom is open only for curbside pickup.

One-third of Revolution's business typically comes from sales at bars, restaurants and other venues, Deth says. The two-thirds coming from store sales is not covering the loss. Revolution's sales were down 12 percent last year, and volume was down 18 percent, Deth says.

The brewery is finding other ways to get new beers to consumers. It is launching a variety pack of its session sour beers and selling specialty four-packs. Independent bottle shops are a bright spot, Deth says. Still, he misses the bars.

"The most powerful thing we can do for craft brewing is get bars back open safely," Deth says.

Like Revolution, Begyle Brewing has flagship beers that did well in stores last year, says owner Kevin Cary. It expanded to more stores, too.

The North Center brewer went from canning 2,500 cases of beer a year to 10,000. Still, 80 percent of Begyle's revenue came from its taproom, which is closed. Cary says the brewery ended 2020 with about a 30 percent loss overall.

He hopes the increased sales in stores helped Begyle reach new customers.

"We're going to be in a little bit of a hole if and when we get to the other side of this, so how do we dig out?" he says. "Maybe we made a new customer. . . .Maybe that turns into more visits in the future."

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 January 2021 14:05 (three years ago) link

Thanks for posting that. I've assumed that there was a gap in margins between kegged beer and packaged goods but had no idea they were this massive.

Some friends have been wondering if this pandemic will be the death of the three-tier system.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 20:53 (three years ago) link

Given that there are some local (little, but not tiny) breweries that have started doing home delivery, I wonder.

I actually heard the author of that piece interviewed this afternoon (I'll try to find it).

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 January 2021 21:08 (three years ago) link

I mean, sure, everything else I love is being ruined and/or completely crippled by the pandemic, so logically that would mean craft beer too.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 21:10 (three years ago) link

At least the beer is still good! I just ordered a 4-pack of Revolution's Apple Brandy Ryeway, rye ale aged in apple brandy barrels.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 January 2021 21:15 (three years ago) link

Oh it is still very good indeed, just had some Cafe Deth and Deth by Cherries the other night! Just a lot of doom and gloom itt.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 21:19 (three years ago) link

lol

ps: @jon, the death of the three-tier system is something that i (and most/99% of beer nerds) would celebrate with much aplomb. it is archaic, backwards and rewards the macro-producers.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 22:17 (three years ago) link

Not arguing with that point at all, more the talk about the breweries struggling and the predictions about 3 Floyd's and others.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 22:19 (three years ago) link

Hey Chicagoans, my friend Marty works for Metropolitan and they have a special beer coming out alongside their 12th anniversary.

Winter is hard but there's always the prospect of a bit of sunshine. @MetroBrewing is offering that this weekend. Come try a bit of Optimistic Prime with a portion of the proceeds benefiting @HopeForTheDay's mental health awareness education. Honored to have worked on this. pic.twitter.com/GKH7sFVxwE

— ũƝᵯȖȠɖʘשЇнҒר٭ṪỄ®Åƾ (@TrueMartyParty) January 21, 2021

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 21 January 2021 20:13 (three years ago) link


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