Nadja is one of my essential novels, but most of those Surrealists idealized or hated women or, to quote Whit Stillman, were a bunch of social climbers.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 00:56 (three years ago) link
also the elite cadre, with Kafka at the top and Orwell quite possibly second, of writers who've stamped themselves into the imaginaire of people who've never read them
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Monday, December 14, 2020 7:43 PM (one minute ago)
yeah seriously nothing grinds my gears like a conservative who quotes orwell
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 15 December 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
all those insects, all those buildings, all that bric a brac
the commonplace usage now is a long way from the heart of the dream
obviously words only mean what the people who use them mean but
Nadja yeah, Persistence of Memory nah
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
Bunuel movies are chock full of stuff, not ideas
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 00:58 (three years ago) link
Surrealism is more reality, not less.
xps they were terrible about women, yes, although the subsequent generation of post-surrealist female writers and artists issued some fascinating correctives to the original group's misogyny.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link
Breton, the Pope of Surrealism, put Dali "on trial" lol -- these dudes had no humor at all
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:00 (three years ago) link
This year has the most heavy-hitting line up so far. No one's even mentioned Gertrude Stein, Ivy Compton-Burnett, Ford Maddox Ford, Dos Passos, or Dreiser.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:00 (three years ago) link
Bunuel is one of my top ten filmmakers, and I don't consider him a Breton-ian Surrealist.
and to swing back to vaguely what the point was, lol
Kafka isn't writing allegories, he's mapping the world AS IS
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:01 (three years ago) link
otm
Blanchot has some good bits about this, but I digress.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:01 (three years ago) link
i think Bunuel was closest to Breton in terms of adherence to Marxism, belief in chance and materiality and not trying to create a meta-dream
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:02 (three years ago) link
there was obviously a lot of rancour and dickishness but there's at least one level where calling out Dali was funny and Dali kept his shaman face a lot straighter, for money
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:08 (three years ago) link
Mark Polizzotti's Breton bio shows Dali, at his insouciant best, having his way with these fools.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:09 (three years ago) link
The most worthwhile among them all got excommunicated.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:10 (three years ago) link
i can't objectively call a score so fair enough, the outcome was as it was. i care about Breton's work, especially the absence of work, way more than i care about Dali, who seems quainter and way more assimilable to me
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:14 (three years ago) link
Breton's poetry is about the only "spontaneous" kind I can take.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:15 (three years ago) link
a lot of the game play surrealist stuff isn't very interesting or good?
Nadja is amazing, i agree. i feel like Breton argued the best for not just making more stuff to shove into the art markets
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:18 (three years ago) link
and again Kafka was right if he didn't want to add to the heap of commodities in a world that was accelerating the pile of cultural commodities exponentially
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:19 (three years ago) link
i'm rambling in knots now, the Bretonian move is to shut the fuck up
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:20 (three years ago) link
On the other hand, but ignoring that, I'm suddenly struck by the thought that The Trial is a nightmare about taxonomy and its reification as filing. And taxonomy is the liberating motor of the enlightenment, and the power of its liberation derived from squishing the reality of things into the labyrinth of records, and your name is the file tag the state apparatus uses to exert its squish
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:31 (three years ago) link
Gatsby seemed like more of an idealist, a different type of American product, than Kane, Hearst or Trump, though they all four have a lot of drive...he may be an example of "The con man has to love his own bullshit," though we see the kind of overachievment this leads to (I'm sure somebody read this and thought, "Well yeah, but if he had done this that way and that this way, coulda alled work out, hmmm.")Stein, ICB, Ford, and Drieser can be amazingly good, but I haven't read these particular books. Dos Passos's appropriately large USA kept me racing along , but I envy Scott Seward for reading it in high school; that would have been perfect.
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:45 (three years ago) link
"all worked" or woiked out, even.
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:46 (three years ago) link
ts reification as filing Yeah, he worked in an insurance office, didn't he? His father's?
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:48 (three years ago) link
oh yeah, this sounds about right: Kafka obtained the degree of Doctor of Law on June 18, 1906 and performed an obligatory year of unpaid service as law clerk for the civil and criminal courts.
Work
At the end of 1907 Kafka started working in a huge Italian insurance company, where he stayed for nearly a year. His correspondence during that period witnesses that he was unhappy with his working time schedule - from 8 p.m (20:00) until 6 a.m (06:00) - as it made it extremely difficult for him to concentrate on his writing. On July 15, 1908, he resigned, and few weeks later found more suitable employment with the Worker's Accident Insurance Institute for the Kingdom of Bohemia. He worked there until July 1922 when he retired for reasons of ill health.
He often referred to his job as insurance officer as a "bread job", a job done only to pay the bills. However, he did not show any signs of indifference towards his job, as the several promotions that he received during his career prove that he was a hardworking employee. In parallel, Kafka was also committed to his literary work.8 p.m. to 6 a.m.!https://www.kafka-online.info/franz-kafka-biography.htm
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 01:53 (three years ago) link
Strange to say, there's only one thread on ilx solely dedicated to kafka
But there are two for Max Brod, vis a vis Kafka: Thread of Max Brod Hatewhere would we be without Max Brod?
None of them are on I Love Books.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 02:32 (three years ago) link
I agree that Kafka is making a map of the territory, albeit at half a step removed. Even something as ostensibly allegorical as the Penal Colony has a realist weight to it. I'm sure he'd have pissed himself laughing at the notion of being a prophet or whatever but he's like Ballard in that regard: his worlds are always on the edge of becoming our own. Or vice versa.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 08:28 (three years ago) link
speaking of kafka, anyone read that newly translated story in the new yorker this year? it must have sucked because it seems no one’s discussed it
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 15 December 2020 13:03 (three years ago) link
There were four stories and you could read all of them in ten minutes, which may explain the lack of discussion - not to criticise them for brevity, my favourite thing I read this year of Kafka's is this aphorism:
The crows assert that a single crow could destroy the heavens. This is certainly true, but it proves nothing against the heavens, because heaven simply means: the impossibility of crows.
The longest of the New Yorker stories starts with a simple proposition which rapidly descends into typical absurdity, it reads almost like a shaggy dog story with a groan-worthy punchline.
― ledge, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 13:50 (three years ago) link
― pomenitul
Blanchot has some good bits about a lot of things. I should really go back and reread some of his shit, it's so good.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 17:51 (three years ago) link
The New Yorker pieces are excerpts from The Lost Writings, which I posted about on What Are You Reading?:"It is not a barren wall, it's living sweetness pressed into a wall, bunches of grapes pressed together."---"I don't believe it."---"Taste it."---"I'm too incredulous to lift a hand."---"I'll put a grape to your mouth, then."---"I won't be able to taste it from incredulity."---"Then drop!---"Didn't I tell you that the barrenness of this wall is enough to lay a man out?"That's from Kafka's The Lost Writings, recently published by New Directions, translated by Michael Hofmann, and selected by Reiner Stach, who also wrote the afterword.More uses of humor than expected, to a range of effects, incl. at least one that turns out like a sketch from Yiddish theater, if not a Mel Brooks movie. Also one that involves a power figure's much younger wife, uh-oh: more about sex and gender than expected as well---been a long time since I've read him, though. (Those last two are almost as long as it gets in here, like a couple pages each.)Don't worry, it's also Kafkaesque:A delicate matter, this tiptoeing across a crumbling board set down as a bridge, nothing underfoot, having to scrape together with your feet the ground you are treading on, walking on nothing but your reflection down in the water below, holding the world together with your feet, your hands cramping at the air to survive this ordeal.Those are among my favorites so far, but some don't seem to work as well, though even here, he sets the bar fairly high.
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:20 (three years ago) link
Some of the ones I didn't get at first I do now (I think): the mind has to adjust to the shifts, the climbing of trees and word-walls and bridges and so on.
― dow, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:25 (three years ago) link
Kafka is evading this tendancy these days, I think. "Read some effin Orwell", is how it mostly is.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:51 (three years ago) link
Also don't think Brod's interpretation has stuck -- all of this speaks to the greatness of the work.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:52 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link
Want to vote for "Frau Sixta by Ernst Zahn", but I'm thinking of a Sixta by another mister.
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 20:33 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Thursday, 17 December 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link
Was semi expecting a Silent Majority for Fitzgerald here but I guess it's no surprise Kafka would triumph on ILX
Wherein We Elect Our Favourite Novels of 1926
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 17 December 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link
Would've voted Woolf had I known it would be a landslide. Only 3 votes is criminal imo.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 17 December 2020 16:22 (three years ago) link
Shout-out to whoever voted for the Dreiser, can't honestly say I think it deserves to win this field but it packs a punch and I'm glad it wasn't shut out
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 17 December 2020 16:26 (three years ago) link
ranked voting would be handy in polls with multiple worthy books, but I think Kafka still would've won.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Thursday, 17 December 2020 17:42 (three years ago) link
I really want more Stein and Dreiser, also need to try Gide, but right now what an unfuckwithable 1925 lifeboat quartet: The Trial by Franz Kafka The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald Mrs Dalloway by Virgina Woolf The Professor's House by Willa Cather
― dow, Thursday, 17 December 2020 18:49 (three years ago) link
The only Dreiser I've read is the Library of America volume comprised of Sister Carrie, Jennie Gerhardt, and Twelve Men: exxxcellent.
― dow, Thursday, 17 December 2020 18:52 (three years ago) link
also the elite cadre, with Kafka at the top and Orwell quite possibly second, of writers who've stamped themselves into the imaginaire of people who've never read them― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Monday, December 14, 2020 7:43 PM (one minute ago)Kafka is evading this tendancy these days, I think. "Read some effin Orwell", is how it mostly is.― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:51 (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:51 (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
Just seen the following joke in The Simpsons. Lisa is outraged about something.
Lisa: This is Kafkaesque! Kafkaesque! Judge: I've got my eye on you tooLisa: Now it's Orwellian!
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 December 2020 18:38 (three years ago) link
Lol fair enough though if it's a season 10+ joke then I'm not sure it counts
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 18 December 2020 18:43 (three years ago) link
It was more recent than that. Of course it means nothing, but the timing made me smile
― Uptown Top Scamping (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 December 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link