Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

that much is clear

wondering how people experience risk differently

hmm

once I was renting a house to a tenant and I provided the bed for him. he called me to tell me the bed was riddled with bedbugs.

this was a challenge - it would not be easy to rid the bed of bedbugs and make the effort to ensure to provide restitution to the tenant as well as alternate bedding. I was stressing out about it.

but then I realized if I just pretended the bed bugs weren't there, I didn't have to fix anything.

stress relieved!

in all seriousness though, it's fairly hard to be largely removed from people and things we care about for 9 months, which is undoubtedly wrecking all of our brains. some people react via denialism - "it won't happen to me", etc.

I have family who won't let anyone in the door. I myself have decided I will let one friend into my life for dinners but otherwise no. My friends I mentioned above are willing to travel with precautions. I have other friends who are convinced they have already been exposed and are taking no precautions

are they so convinced that they got positive antibody tests?

wondering how people experience risk differently

yeah because you don't give a shit about the risks the people who service you or your crazy friends take

might even be sadder that that you regret doing the right thing while the cool kids are raging. did they call you a pussy?

(this is a deep sock, right?)

your friends are idiots

― call all destroyer, Saturday, December 12, 2020 7:14 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Dan S

Deep Sock

lol

just to make it crystal clear to you, since i don't think anything less would work, even if someone cares so little about the lives of others that they're willing to undertake unnecessary travel to "holiday destinations" because it makes them feel good, the densest members of our population should be concerned about covid-19 morbidity if they value their quality of life or have responsibilities involving taking care of others.

ok you made it crystal clear

I’ve not mentioned it before and likely never will again, but my friend’s sister-in-law felt similarly “won’t happen here” and that and my friend is now missing her 38 year old brother who pretty much died on the way to the hospital when he woke up with shallow breathing, low heart rate and his system just shut down

No prior conditions, no nothing

she “experienced risk differently” and now she’s raising two kids, including an infant, differently without my friend’s brother

despite nikki haley's connections, her sister-in-law died of it at age 53

I'm sorry to hear that, mh. Just horrible.

But I'm also glad you brought it up because it's all too easy to forget what's at stake here. With all due respect, Dan, your friends sound like narcissistic idiots.

sorry to hear that mh, really

I think Dan S does bring up something I've been thinking about.

Am I an idiot for going to the grocery store once or twice a week? What about the few occasions where I've eaten food and drank a few beers with friends, at a distance? The other day, I took a hike with my oldest friend. We had a nice time, but certainly weren't six feet apart the whole while.

My friends hung an art show this weekend in NY. They had strict capacity and time limits in the gallery. Are they stupid? I'm not totally sure!

On top of what Neanderthal mentions, you also have to remember that there are millions of people who don't have any money, who don't have a way to make money, and who aren't being given any money for relief, which would describe those particular artist friends pretty accurately.

I personally feel like I'm taking every precaution I can. But I have a friend who hasn't gone to a grocery store since March, and gets absolutely freaked picking up inventory from his very large storage space, which itself is in an enormous and nearly empty building. He makes me feel like I'm living on the edge!

Of course, rich people taking vacations should be excoriated. Should I for going backpacking with some friends in October?

My father in law has needed of heart valve surgery for the last year, but it was delayed due to other health issues and then covid in March. His health deteriorated further and he just went to the ER because of how bad he was feeling and it ends up what he thought was a hernia is likely a sarcoma the size of a grapefruit. We're three hours away and my wife couldn't get in the hospital to see him anyway and he is too weak from the heart/other health issues to have chemo/surgery so things aren't looking good. So he's probably going to die soon, alone, and my wife won't be able to see him or give him a hug and it won't be listed as covid, but fuck this shit.

― Joe Biden Shot My Dog - Vols. I-XL (PBKR), Tuesday, December 8, 2020 9:31 PM (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Update: my father-in-law indeed has an untreatable sarcoma and is being released from the hospital to home hospice with my wife's sister. All things considered, this is good in that he won't be stuck living by himself like he has for the last nine months, but will be around kids, grandkids, and dogs for the last months of his life (and that is all there is going to be).

No definitive plans yet, but we will likely make at least one trip to my wife's sister (about a five hour drive each way) to see her dad before he dies. We have been extremely locked down, wfh, and safe, so exposing ourselves inside to a bunch of other family is certainly going to be anxiety-inducing.

I think we may rent an airbnb nearby for an entire week due to the distance involved, so we have our own place to sleep, and so we can spend more time with him, but this all certainly makes our previous precautions feel pointless on some level. Ugh.

I'm glad that he'll be surrounded by family, but that is still awful, PBKR. Best to you and yours

Am I an idiot for going to the grocery store once or twice a week? What about the few occasions where I've eaten food and drank a few beers with friends, at a distance? The other day, I took a hike with my oldest friend. We had a nice time, but certainly weren't six feet apart the whole while.

there are mitigating factors for all of these. you’re likely not in the grocery store for longer than 20 minutes right? that significantly diminishes the risk. (i got twice a week.) you were hiking and eating with your friends outside right? with masks on for the most part? severely diminished risk afaict

of course i’m no expert and i know nothing but the last six months have taught me it’s: prolonged (hour-plus) exposure indoors or in a crowded area outdoors. i avoid these situations. that is my measure of reasonable risk-avoidance

well i guess i don’t avoid protests which are full of ppl but we’re all masked up and i have yet to hear of a significant outbreak linked to a protest

i’m also trying to suspend my judgment of ppl who are likely still very confused about how one catches the virus as it is confusing. reading the plague earlier this year was instructive regarding how ppl tend to behave during a plague

Xpost so sorry mh that is terrible

m I an idiot for going to the grocery store once or twice a week? What about the few occasions where I've eaten food and drank a few beers with friends, at a distance? The other day, I took a hike with my oldest friend. We had a nice time, but certainly weren't six feet apart the whole while.

My friends hung an art show this weekend in NY. They had strict capacity and time limits in the gallery. Are they stupid? I'm not totally sure!

We know now that sustained exposure in spaces, interior or exterior, has the most risk. You're far, far more likely to absorb enough of the aerosols if you sit unmasked in a room for, say, ten minutes with an asymptomatic friend than if you two sat outside.

I have no anxieties going to supermarkets and Target. Masks are required, they're big spaces, and no one's close.

I still see friends -- indeed, I did so last night -- but we're lucky that, unlike the rest of the country, Florida (at last!) is at its most delicious; we want to sit outside.

Right. I guess I feel like I'm being pretty safe and understand the risks. I have friends who've rented AirBnBs in the mountains for a few nights, and I am a bit dubious of such endeavors mostly because I am dubious of AirBnBs in general, but I'm also suspending judgment unless people are being real fucking idiots...which is happening everywhere, all the time, unabated.

if I don't have context, I lay off, mostly cos I don't want to think of myself as the arbiter of propriety

also I'm just fucking mentally tired.

I don't really have any friends who are doing the "fuck fear, I'm living my best life" thing right now, or....none that are advertising. but I have a lot of dr friends which is somewaht why

My parents' neighbours are currently averaging a party a week, with a revolving cast of characters, in a context (Quebec) where such get-togethers have been illegal since the start of October and Xmas is basically cancelled, so while none of us advocate for calling the cops on them, witnessing this shit is immensely frustrating.

People have been sending their COVID positive kids into our school because they believe in “living without fear”

Hope they burn in hell along with some people mentioned here yesterday

People have been sending their COVID positive kids into our school because they believe in “living without fear”

Hope they burn in hell along with some people mentioned here yesterday

my son's teacher just phoned, some pupil who shares a corridor with him has the rona so school is out till next year. I've become so blasé recently my first thought was: ffs I thought I had a free day next week to get my eyes tested rather than Yikes!

I think the basic thing for me is that everyone should minimize risk as much as they can, given their circumstances. I have friends who have to go to work and be in relatively close proximity with others, I have coworkers who have small kids that absolutely need some level of social interaction outside of their immediate family, and nearly everyone has had some sort of mitigating circumstance this year where they’ve had to do less-safe things. I had to interact with a lot more people in closer proximity when part of a tree fell on my house and the sewer backed up the same week (august was a wild one) than I really felt comfortable with, but it had to be done.

I can’t blame people for being anxious and acting out in small ways but people who proclaim that they’re going to start acting like “things are normal” just because they’ve decided their choice between caution and comfort is just to throw out all caution, fuck that.

I really should stop making the one indoor place I leave the house to wander briefly the liquor store, though! I’ll probably hit up Costco this week, maybe Trader Joe’s. I feel less like I’m going to spread my imaginary latent germs now that I’ve been living off a fully stocked freezer and the occasional food delivery for weeks.

and sending some love PBKR’s way, that is definitely a trip that sounds work taking, even with the anxiety

m I an idiot for going to the grocery store once or twice a week?

No more than idiots like me who have to go to work twice a week.

I think the basic thing for me is that everyone should minimize risk as much as they can, given their circumstances.

This. There are no magic threshold numbers (six feet apart comes to mind) through which one can control risk and predict outcomes. It is all on a spectrum that revolves around fuzzy clouds of probability.

The best approach imo is to push oneself as close to the low risk end as you can tolerate, but to recognize that your limit will necessarily be somewhat elastic as the required effort is carried on for months upon months. It's a bit analogous to dietary discipline. One avoids excess for long stretches, but allows for the possibility of an occasional brief 'splurge' before going back to strict discipline. But the fewer these lapses are, the better off your overall health.

I'm almost reluctant to link this because it seems *too* reassuring, missing a critical varaiable—the number of already-infected in a given room. Also doesn't account for level of contagiousness in the given infected person, using an average instead. Still, interesting:

Transmission calculator

and sending some love PBKR’s way, that is definitely a trip that sounds work taking, even with the anxiety

― mh, Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:13 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thanks! We'll (probably) be ok, just feeling like uncharted territory.

So a mutant strain, 70% more transmittable, is running rampant through London and the SE of England, such that the government have had to invent a new higher tier of local restrictions to place everyone in... yet, I've just been to my local (mini) Tesco and literally half the customers and one of the staff were not wearing masks, much the same story in a couple of barber shops and a fast food place I passed on my way back home. They're not being jolly careful, Boris.

They mightn't've seen the news, being as it was only unveiled at 4 on a Saturday afternoon.

They knew we were already in the highest tier I assume.

the virus being tranmissible is not new news tbf

(yeah perhaps that was a generous reading from me)

"We're closing all the non-essential shops from tomorrow" seems like an invitation to panic buying.

The Spanish and Italian people I work with, who are unfortunately stuck here with the rest of us, are dumbstruck by all this.

Idk what they expected when they made a point of stressing CHRISTMAS WILL BE GOING AHEAD on Wednesday and then did this at 4pm the weekend before, when people who have understandably thought they’d be seeing family wouldn’t have had anything in.

And also when restrictions come into effect at midnight and trains are still running, obviously this kind of thing will happen.

Last train out of Saigon. Queue at St Pancras as we wait to board the Leeds bound train. pic.twitter.com/cFDBDNnYFC

— Harriet Clugston (@HarrietClugston) December 19, 2020

The sheer murderous incompetence of it… absolutely staggering stuff.

The Mutants Train, coming to your town soon.

I mean, just look at the amount of deaths per 100,000 pop. in the UK:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I don’t hate or judge these people for it, is the thing. It’s been almost a year since I saw my parents, nine months since I hugged any member of my family, three since I saw the nearest one to me. Lots of people, myself included, have been putting up with shit and thinking “at least I’ll see them at Christmas” and it has been keeping people going for a while. It’s not just incompetent and irresponsible, it’s incredibly cruel.