Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

so not gonna happen
http://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/4/4f/Marvel_Team-Up_Vol_1_69.jpg/revision/latest%3Fcb%3D20181231002037

http://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61NmAOsMIdL._SX326_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg

tbf, they used the force

This one’s actually “real”:

https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Star-Wars-Uncanny-X-Men-Crossover-Comic-Nightcrawler-Kitty-Pryde-Darth-Vader-Mary-Marvel1.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&h=225&dpr=1.5

Looks like Oscar Isaac may have been unofficially confirmed as Marc Spector by the Moon Knight DP.

WandaVision is interesting so far but it is taking a long time to get to the point. Also being deliberately obfuscatory for the nerds that know Tom King's Vision and the NO MORE MUTANTS storyline... still some deep nerd teases with Captain Marvel II showing up, ads for Strucker watches with hydra logos, was that an ultron toaster? I need more meat on this bone shortly though; the sitcom elements are getting tired even with the rapidly updating chronological design flourishes.

disagree completely re pacing of WandaVision, the slow pacing is what i'm liking so far and think the sitcom elements not at all tired but help bring up, how the original storyline in the comics of them moving to the suburbs (Leonia NJ in early 80s) and wanting an 'ideal' suburban life was supposed to work out, (esp as back then Vizh did not have a image inducer so always was red synthezoid).

Playing with the idealized families of sitcoms feel perfect to go into that, of course perfect to do it on TV (as obv not gonna do a movie). so having something that doesn't jump to the action is a better use of the TV time i think and exploring the characters. (of course have to see how finally plays out and may recant)

I'm hoping though def shares aspects with disassembled and no more mutants that doesn't go that ultimate route re wanda

jokes/ads/easter eggs
the toaster is made by stark industries - dont think any ultron ref but more a ref to both in comics and by readers ppl commenting that wanda was married to 'a toaster'

'Geraldine'/Monica Rambeau - wondering if something that happens here will substitute for how she gains powers in the comics - one scene in a making of featurette on is what made me think that was a possibility

not having read the Vision comics, something i missed but was referenced on io9 in comments. SPOILERS for Vision below which I've not read but assume use on show is purely easter egg for comics reader here is

"The animated opening credits in the second episode are delightful. Even better, though, if you slow them down, you’ll notice...

Illustration for comment/ paused @ 22 secs into animated opening credits of ep2

...what appears to be the Grim Reaper’s helmet and several bones under the floor. Which is either an Easter egg to when Virginia Vision killed him and buried him in the backyard in Tom King’s The Vision or, you know, they actually killed him and buried him in the floor in the show."

43

I'm reserving judgment because this is such an out of left field experiment in the MCU that I have no idea where it's headed. They really did a magnificent job of full-on recreating the feel of a b&w sitcom, as I was just expecting some tongue-in-cheek nods in that direction before they plunged into the action. I think I agree that I like the pacing but it may depend on how much longer they drip feed the clues that something is awry.

Haven't watched yet, but here's a question: all the kids no doubt watching this, would they even recognize old-school B&W sitcom tropes? Or will it go right over their heads like, I dunno, a record scratch sound effect?

Depends on how much MeTV their folks watch, I guess.

50s sitcom absolutely nailed, especially the canned effects.

It's hard not to see everything as clues but the toaster had a red LED showing in a black and white film and Mrs aldo said she thought the beeping was like a heart monitor going to flatline (plus the people in the as look worried).

Going to throw a theory out there:

There is no big conspiracy. This is Wanda's reality altering powers filtering her grief after Vision is killed by Thanos. She's in a secure holding facility so she doesn't destroy the world. At the end she'll have come to terms with it and be ready to rejoin the Avengers.

^^^ My guess as well. I'm enjoying it so far.

I don't know if it's a spoiler or not but Wanda will be appearing next in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Make of that what you will.

WandaVision is the best thing MCU has made in a long, long time. I'm frankly astonished they went for it.

I think my issue with the pacing is because I have the same general sense as Aldo/WmC as to where the plot is going (as informed by way too extensive reading of the comics) and i dislike paddling in place waiting for the story to catch up to me. Not sure what's up with the AIM guy with the bees though?

Even if my prognostication is generally off, there's not a whole lot more to lean on while I'm waiting to be proven wrong. The sitcom stuff is clever enough, particularly the chronological transition from Dick Van Dyke to Bewitched (Brady Bunch next?) but the line between watching a cliched sitcom and watching a darkly veiled parody/metaphor of same is pretty thin. Basically, _I feel like I got it already_ and would like to get the actual story going now.

Even so, I appreciate Marvel's willingness to take some chances here. My beef is that style is outweighing substance so far. But hey it's only two episodes in. Looking forward to being proven wrong!

I thought the E1 design/callbacks were to I Love Lucy, not Dick Van Dyke.

Both, I'd say? The part where he walks through the chair seemed like a definite DVD nod. Obviously lots of I Dream of Jeannie in episode 2 as well.

Mmm, yes indeed.
https://www.indiewire.com/2020/11/wandavision-consulted-dick-van-dyke-filmed-live-studio-audience-1234597777/

Crew members came to set in ’50s-era clothing

things you were surprisingly old when you learned: i didn't realize elizabeth olsen was related to the olsen twins, duh

so paul bettany really went full rik mayall in episode two of wandavision huh

Not sure what's up with the AIM guy with the bees though?

Oh, goddamn it, I'm pissed at myself for not catching that that was an AIM dude. I just saw a guy in a beekeeper suit, which should've been an obvious clue for any true Zombie.

^this seems a bit overkill?

sounds like fun tbh!

I really enjoyed the first ep!

I have always found Vision as a character kinda nebulous & semi dull & wasnt sure if i’d enjoy it. But I really got sucked in right away. Paul Bettany has been around for so long as an actor & it was great to see him let loose in a sitcom comedy format, he was really funny. Both him & olsen did great - and Katherine Hahn is made for this shit, she’s so good. All the casting was perfect - Debra Jo Rupp & Fred Melamed as the Harts was like chef’s kiss modern Fred & Ethel casting, they were hilarious.

Also the look - that very washed out, almost sepia black and white is a really good choice instead of the harsher b&w - it helps place the comedy or make it funnier somehow? i cant quite explain what I mean except that i see that look & immediately get a Lucy vibe, like you immediately know where you are if you have that frame of reference

one other easter egg of note is the fairly obvious SWORD insignias in the "outside world" shots, giving greater credence to the holding facility theory... presumably doc strange is keeping wanda from destroying the multiverse?

Am I only the one who thinks that, besides the The Vision and the Scarlet Witch and The House of M, this seems to be taking its cues from both Tom King's Vision series and from his Mister Miracle series? I mean, the influence of the former is obvious, with the whole concept of the Vision trying to live in the suburbs with normal people, with much difficulty... But the latter's basic idea is that a superhero couple is caught in illusionary world where they're living a regular domestic life with no other superheroes are around, but then we start seeing some glitches in the matrix, which seems to be the plot here too.

Anyway, as for predictions of what's happening here, I think the House of M scenario, where this is all just Wanda's reality warper powers creating a world where the Vision is alive again, and in the end she wakes up from the dream and comes to terms with his death, feels a bit too obvious. It's been done so many times in superhero fiction, and in sci-fi in general. IMO there's something more complicated going here, and I feel the endgame is to bring Vision back for real. In both of the first two episodes, the Vision seems to be just as confused as Wanda is about the world they've dropped in, not remembering when their anniversary is, or if they're even marrod, or how they ended up living in the suburbs, etc. If he was just a character in Wanda's illusion, surely he would have a proper backstory and memories, like all the other sitcom people we meet?

I haven’t watched this, but the concept does sound similar to the Tom King series (which I thought was pretentious and a bummer, so this seems better right off the bat).

It appears to be all of those things in a blender, which is in line with the marvel studios method. The authors of all those series/stories (and lee and Kirby) are noted in the end credits.

How does participation work for Marvel/DC writers & artists? Do they see any money from derivative works, or everything they do work for hire and they’re lucky if they receive a credit?

loooooolll

Sic will certainly chime in here, but my understanding is that marvel studios, working as a completely separate entity from marvel, has a tendency to pay creators fairly well as advisers. I don’t really think there’s any legal obligation to do so; more of a mix of fan base goodwill and a nearly endless budget.

No idea what DC does.

Lol caught in the xp

one dude created a plurality, possiblu a majority, of the most significant aspects of the Marvel Universe, and Marvel spent years of the MCU suing his grandchildren

PossiBlu was a member of the Guardians Of The Galaxy in the 1980s iirc

Saw both episodes tonight and loved it. Just, as VG noted, Paul Bettany getting to be ridiculous.

I thought this was great. Nice to see a show where you (or I, and my younger daughter) have no idea what's going on or where it's going, at least not at this point.

So I wonder if each episode is going to hop through the decades of sitcoms? First was more or less '50s, second was '60s, right?

Just saw a promo for this, and everything was in color / looked like a "normal" show(?) I'll try to check it out.

Liking the slow drip, walk-through-sitcom-history style so far. But I'm a sucker for long form mystery shows like this, always have been. Second episode was worth it just for Bettany's maximum goofiness.

Fun seeing Debra Jo Rupp from That '70s Show and Emma Caulfield (Anya from Buffy!)

I was trying and failing to place Emma Caulfield

Assuming this is now going to be a weekly Friday release?

Probably yeah, like the Mandalorian was.

Or was that on Saturdays?

I was considering a separate thread for WandaVision, but by the looks of things, there's not really going to be much overlap between the various TV series?

Pity, I was going to name it after the Fred Melamed Rhythmically Thumping Cinematic Universe.

Anyway, is this Paul Bettany's first comedic role since A Knight's Tale? He's really good - the drunkenness in the top hat & tails in the second episode reminded me a bit of Matt Smith.

I'd guess Brady Bunch this week? I'm hoping there'll be a Roseanne episode. With nine in the series, they'll have to run out before the end, even if things don't come to a head first.

Tomorrow's new episode is the last of the ones that went out for review - apparently there's a name said that may clue in Marvel fans?

Cookie Puss?

Oh, wait, Marvel. My bad.

I've already seen some speculation that Wanda and Vision's neighbour Agnes is actually Agatha Harkness, because of the similarity in names, and because she's played by a fairly well known actor for a seemingly minor role. But if that's true, I really, really, really hope this is isn't supposed to be an adaptation of that awful John Byrne West Coast Avengers story which pretty much ruined Wanda and Vision for years.

Tomorrow's new episode is the last of the ones that went out for review - apparently there's a name said that may clue in Marvel fans?

Unless it's something I completely missed it, I don't think any name or any other detail in this episode gave any more clue to comic books readers than to those only familiar with the movies? Unless the clue was supposed to be that Wanda did indeed give birth to Wiccan and Speed, but I'm sure all the comic book folks already guessed it after the previous episode's pregnancy reveal.

The Truman Show stuff towards the end of episode seems to confirm my theory upthread that the Vision is indeed back and not just a figment of Wanda's imagination, no? She still seems to have control over Westview and what's happening there, but it doesn't look like she created its inhabitants.

Now that Disney owns Fox, is she ever going to officially be called Scarlet Witch? I'm not a comic book guy so I don't know the exact details of the changes they made, but ... wasn't she revealed/rewritten to be a mutant in the comics? Has the MCU called anything she does magic or witchcraft or hexes or whatever? From a casual perspective she's been one of the more confusing characters in the MCU, since her powers are so ill-defined (iirc in the comics at some point she was considered one of the handful of most powerful superheroes). Vision, too, I guess, he's got a huge array of vague yet powerful abilities.

She was a mutant for most of her existence in the comics and was retconned into being an Inhuman.

Tuomas, could you as a favour shut the fuck up on the day of the episode's release?

Oh yeah, wasn't she Magneto's daughter at some point? I guess with Disney owning pretty much everything, plus exploring multiverse stuff, they can basically do whatever they want with any of these characters.