rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

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Not just the music industry but ugh:

https://pitchfork.com/news/fka-twigs-sues-shia-labeouf-alleging-abuse-and-assault/

pomenitul, Friday, 11 December 2020 19:45 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

Massive new story about Burger Records

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-01-24/burger-records-musicians-sexual-misconduct

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 24 January 2021 16:32 (three years ago) link

Oh man, not a name I expected recognizing in the accused list...

I'll be dumping off a box of records tomorrow.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 24 January 2021 18:34 (three years ago) link

The Tyde allegation one is the most surprising of that new batch, but it’s all heartbreaking.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 24 January 2021 20:26 (three years ago) link

As pointed out on Twitter though, that headline is a mess and a terrible framing of the story. It’s the abusive men that “took down” the label and framing it the way the headline does is bullshit victim blaming. The article itself is great, but oof that headline sucks.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 24 January 2021 20:29 (three years ago) link

I don't see it as victim blaming, unless you perceive that "burger records" stands for "fun and innocence and good times" -- I see it more like "dismantling the gross pedo-friendly patriarchy"

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 21:47 (three years ago) link

The writing is weird because they keep shifting terms and I'm not sure if they are meant to be read as synonymous or not ... like DIY/underground music scene does not just equal bands that are adjacent to Burger records and pop-punk / garage. It then dials back to "indie" in a few places, and it's like ... geez, I'm glad I don't live in SoCal or have much experience with the scene(s) down there, because otherwise I'd be annoyed all day by the semantic imprecision.

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 21:53 (three years ago) link

Xps. Yeah they're meaning it in the vain of "these survivors took down this organization of abusers", an empowering framing.

Fenners' Pen (jim in vancouver), Sunday, 24 January 2021 21:54 (three years ago) link

like if you were substitute "The Trump Administration" or "LAPD" for "Burger Records" -- how would that read to you?

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 21:58 (three years ago) link

I guess I can see both readings, but this below was one of the many tweets I saw that also expressed discomfort with it, which I think is an equally fair take:

When I came out against my abuser in the publishing world they ran articles about the woman who took down a publishing company. Uh, no, my abuser did that. I hate it when they frame us as “taking things down”.

— Hailey-Laine🐎🪐 (@henrytheeVth) January 24, 2021

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:15 (three years ago) link

I get it. Obviously she had some stake in the publishing world and the company, and thus she felt like she was being framed as a spoilsport or breaking a valuable thing, as opposed to someone from the outside (or someone with an existing negative opinion) perceiving it as heroic.

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:20 (three years ago) link

I think the key thing is that the journalism should center the victims if that is what the story promises to be about, and present them as people as opposed to instruments or plot devices (if the victims consent to their stories being told, that is)

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:22 (three years ago) link

Maybe it should have been something like, "The women who exposed the culture of abuse at the heart of L.A.'s music scene." Guess that's a little long...

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:25 (three years ago) link

Don’t get me wrong, Burger deserved to go away (at a bare minimum) and these women are fantastic for standing up against the shitty culture they enabled for so long. It’s an important piece and I’m glad it’s well reported and sourced.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:27 (three years ago) link

And some of it is about "audience" -- like who is going to read the article. An LA Times article is going to have a different audience than if that headline was in an article published by Pitchfork or Vice where more of the audience would be likely to have been sympathetic to Burger Records prior to the call outs. LA Times is gonna be like, people's moms and dads who might call or email their kids who are under 50 and say, "do you know these people? Did you have any burger records?"

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:27 (three years ago) link

A company. Publishing. The nerve! That tweet otm

maf you one two (maffew12), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:29 (three years ago) link

xp morris: there are a lot of "music scenes" in LA and this article is not that broad... that would be a really shitty headline, though it would get people's attention!

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:30 (three years ago) link

I guess the headline just reminded me too much of the Twitter fanboys who are always saying shit like, “this girl ruined the scene” or “she broke up the band”.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:30 (three years ago) link

xp Well, as you noted above, the article does implicate the music scene beyond just that label ("Similar stories from dozens of women soon began pouring into Redd’s direct message box [...] many were about the local underground music scene in general."), and it makes the label sound like a central part of the scene. If that's not accurate, than maybe that aspect is not being portrayed accurately.

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:33 (three years ago) link

Like if this were just about a few bands and some hinky-dinky label, it would not be as "big" a story. The tendrils of this seem to reach in many directions; even the Smell is mentioned, though only as a place where one of the women first began going to shows (and the Smell scene doesn't seem to overlap, from what I can see, though it's been years since I've had any first-hand awareness of it).

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:35 (three years ago) link

it does implicate it, however, it doesn't really capture the breadth of all the varied DIY/underground spaces/communities presenting music in LA -- which is a very very very large city and inclusive of a bunch of suburbs. This being ILM, I am certain we are all aware that there are many genres of music that aren't pop-punk and rock, yeah?

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:37 (three years ago) link

and tbh, if this was in say, Denver or Iowa City, and not LA, it would not be as "big" a story

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:38 (three years ago) link

I guess it seems pretty clear to me what they mean by "underground/DIY music scene," so I'm not sure I follow your point about other genres.

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:41 (three years ago) link

uh, you are aware that underground/DIY music comprises a lot of different genres, right?

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:43 (three years ago) link

Yes, but I'm not sure how that's relevant or how you would like that point acknowledged in the article (which I didn't write), so we can drop it.

(if this is about my fake headline just saying "music scene," fine - I was just trying to come up with an alternate that, as you said, presents the women as people with agency and doesn't hinge on their victimhood, while giving a more accurate feel for the story.)

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:46 (three years ago) link

yeah it started being about your headline, and then it was about what seemed your ignorance of/unfamiliarity with DIY/underground music and how different communities use that term, and how some of them are like very "un-burger records-y"

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:48 (three years ago) link

though considering now it's been almost a year without shows in CA, it seems weird arguing about tbh ... sorry

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:50 (three years ago) link

honestly, I am also on edge because the G.S. criminal case against Almena got "resolved" yesterday and so the "DIY/underground music scene" has been a hot topic again

sarahell, Sunday, 24 January 2021 22:52 (three years ago) link

The article also says Burger "published recordings by nearly 1,200 bands during its 13 years in existence" so it really does stand that Burger was a nexus point of a bigger Los Angeles scene problem

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 25 January 2021 02:27 (three years ago) link

no one could’ve seen a member from the Black Lips being a grade A creep.

feels like In the Red records would have skeletons in their closet as well since there’s overlap.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Monday, 25 January 2021 03:01 (three years ago) link

Yeah, some of the references to Burger almost feel shoehorned in (like mentioning that a band with an abuser happened to release a cassette on the label); but they make sense in the context of an article focusing on the broader scene. After reading it, you also wonder if the dissolution of the label named in the headline is supposed to have ended the problem.

You have treated my messenger with contempt. (morrisp), Monday, 25 January 2021 03:04 (three years ago) link

i knew this was coming and it still sucks

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:23 (three years ago) link

I feel like he's been a known abuser forever but it didn't seem to stick to him

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:24 (three years ago) link

Hopefully it will stick now. It's horrific, even if only confirming an open secret.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:35 (three years ago) link

Can't tell if I expected this or already knew about it through the press pre-metoo. Depressing either way.

A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:38 (three years ago) link

I swear I though this was all out there already, just not presented as fully maybe? Either way, even if nothing is "new" in that article, it should keep being brought up until there are some actual consequences.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:46 (three years ago) link

evan rachel wood spoke about this behavior a few years ago without directly naming manson. on some level we all knew

the other ppl coming forward with stories are def new to me

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:47 (three years ago) link

I mean, I look to the Ryan Adams thing. While I still don't think he's had the full reckoning he deserves, it was very refreshing to see that even when he tried to come back with a new album, it was met with complete silence from almost every major publication. I feel like that's why it is important to keep these stories out in the public eye, eventually it will hit a critical mass.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:48 (three years ago) link

I knew it was bad but I didn't know there was grooming involved, fucking yikes

stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Monday, 1 February 2021 15:50 (three years ago) link

I remember reading some Rolling Stone profile of him back in ... 2015? Anyway, it was packed with enough self-consciously shocking stuff that it came off pretty enabling. Like, lol, that Manson, what a weirdo rock star, with his canister of Zyklon B, his creepily specific sexual demands and declaration that "anything can be crotchless if you carry a knife." He's so subversive, maaaan, just hiding in plain sight.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 1 February 2021 17:25 (three years ago) link

xp - she was technically an adult

sarahell, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 05:31 (three years ago) link

Watching a ton of people in fandoms adjacent to ones I inhabit, wrestling with this (and as Jude also pointed out on Twitter, understanding that the reckoning needs to deal with Reznor's role in all this).

https://gen.medium.com/marilyn-manson-told-us-who-he-was-3a15e0fc27d

I have a ton more thoughts, but this isn't the place for them.

Branwell with an N, Wednesday, 3 February 2021 18:21 (three years ago) link

Kind of amazing that “Party Down” skewered his whole “dweeb edgelord as cover for sexual predation” vibe so accurately in plain view.

assert (MatthewK), Wednesday, 3 February 2021 18:58 (three years ago) link

Another Manson victim comes forward.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/game-of-thrones-esme-bianco-marilyn-manson-1126700/

nickn, Thursday, 11 February 2021 00:55 (three years ago) link

(^this is one ppl actually do give a f*ck about, and it's being discussed at Marilyn Manson: Classic or Dud?)

babe for the weekend (morrisp), Thursday, 11 February 2021 01:26 (three years ago) link

A band called McCafferty, who have only been mentioned once on ilxor on a rolling emo thread, has an abusive frontman. Many of the original members have just left the band. The google doc below contains many screenshots of social media posts and text chains. I get the feeling that this band is not big enough that the abuse will ever get any actual media attention.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1qvPOwZI2BStB7Rjh0IR9JvOnGgZ2QgZbfKb_AhWiA7I/mobilebasic

peace, man, Monday, 22 February 2021 15:16 (three years ago) link

they should probably just preemptively arrest all emo frontmen

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 February 2021 15:18 (three years ago) link

I was like "didn't we do this already" then realized I was thinking of the smith street band so you might be onto something

stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Monday, 22 February 2021 15:56 (three years ago) link

All this Burger Records stuff came out like mid-2020— but I guess I am just an aging punk with connections to Oakland, so I've known about it for a long time. (Also, I mean, Burger Records has always kind of sucked? Their whole thing is like one big shtick)

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Monday, 22 February 2021 17:35 (three years ago) link


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