Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

I found this article fascinating.

This way of understanding what it means to be a guy, the particular masculine code and set of virtues it espouses, the heroes it holds up for emulation and admiration: none of this appeared in a vacuum. All of it is deeply rooted in the past couple of decades of American history, in everything from the constant imperial wars overseas and their long-term effects to the rising gap between those with college degrees and those without. There are longer-term precedents and archetypes at play as well, and I’ll talk about them, but this all crystallized in the very recent past. It’s a genuinely 21st-century American development, and I want to explore what it means.

It was linked on the Bro Culture thread.

My question after reading it was: to what extent is this behaviour inextricable from the right-wing/conservative mindset?

I didn’t buy the transition in that article that seems to be the thesis statement

“ The tactical lifestyle craze, a natural outgrowth of this particular slice of Bro Culture, is the logical endpoint of all this. ”

I mean how is that the "logical endpoint"? It's like saying religious fundamentalism is the logical endpoint of all religion. Certainly it can go in that direction, but more often it doesn't.

What I liked in the article is that the author actually gets at what's appealing about these "bro cultures," which I don't think is touched on often enough.

I do not for one second buy the idea that this is a new phenomenon in our broader culture from the past 20 years.

For example: Zubaz happened while I was in high school

The article's version of Bro Culture is closer to fascist culture than the version offered by the sillier posters on this message board, which is that fascism = anything short of open borders & the elimination of nation-states.

I mean, you're an Islamophobe, so pretty much anything you say about any issue doesn't carry much weight with the true left of this board anyway.

I mean, you're an anti-semite, so pretty much anything you say about any issue doesn't any weight with anyone good of this board anyway.

I was going to post something about how despite being offended by Sanpaku's "excess immigration is why labor conditions are bad for real Americans" and "the first few weeks of the pandemic proved democracy is bad" (these are paraphrases if you need that pointed out) posts I don't think he's a fascist, he's more like a nationalist authoritarian technocrat. But idk, I'm not a political theorist, is that not fascism?

I have no idea what Sanpaku posted, and I'm no political theorist either. But I think that the key to fascism is the promotion of violence as a good. Fascisms can differ on what that violence is directed against, but the idolatry of the warrior is its heart.

I think “violence is good” implied in some of these positions but you’re right it’s not the main point.

tl;tb;dr

jk I actually did read it, but where he may think his conclusions are a bomb dropping, I was like, "We know, dude." We know because bros harass, belittle, condescend to, assault etc us--I can only speak as a woman but gnc and LGBTQ people could say the same. They love their code and other bros more than they love their loved ones, or justice, or intellectual rigor, or anything that doesn't align with their identities. We know.

it's an aesthetic and it's a thing that liberalism doesn't really have, except one that very bland people can see, i wrote not a very good essay about this in college :/

i've never seen table post anything anti-semitic, btw

tactical bro youtubes are the triumph of the will of our time

I have no idea what Sanpaku posted, and I'm no political theorist either. But I think that the key to fascism is the promotion of violence as a good. Fascisms can differ on what that violence is directed against, but the idolatry of the warrior is its heart.

― All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk you criticize ppl on this board for having too broad a definition of fascism and you offer up this... very broad definition of fascism

it’s famously difficult to define because it’s played out so differently in history but the “fasces” i.e. bundles of sticks forming one strong weapon i think point to the animating principle which is subsumption of difference in service to a single overarching nation-state, and if you are not down with The Project then that weapon turns on you

jk I actually did read it, but where he may think his conclusions are a bomb dropping, I was like, "We know, dude." We know because bros harass, belittle, condescend to, assault etc us--I can only speak as a woman but gnc and LGBTQ people could say the same. They love their code and other bros more than they love their loved ones, or justice, or intellectual rigor, or anything that doesn't align with their identities. We know.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:43 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i didn't read much of it, but i found it very banal.

in other news....

finally, a men’s body wash.. for men. pic.twitter.com/ey8bZ0BzKP

— hall of famer baseball person (@miffedtweeter) December 18, 2020

just don't wash your ass with the stuff

poll: are your balls...
dry
empty
sad
all of the above

Have to say im good on all counts and even if not yknow id imagine a moisturiser that worked on any one part would prob suffice

The women's cosmetics and skincare industry has invested great sums and effort in persuading their customers that different body parts require special, optimized products. I assume they'd love to expand that concept to the men's bodycare market.

Good luck with that, i know a fella cleans his teeth with his razor

Real men don't shave, they hammer in the bristles and chew 'em off inside.

xxxp WASH my ASS?!?!

Euler and others have accused me of being an anti-Semite before, they can keep doing so because anyone who actually knows me knows that such accusations are insane and wrong. Believing that the state of Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing of a non-Jewish population and the institution of an apartheid state isn't anti-Semitic, it's objective reality.

Men obviously need different grades of viscous tar for each part of their body that sprouts hair or otherwise defines their manliness, they are all wild and manly in different ways that need different “performance support profiles”

I'm sorry but maffew's post into the table is the table's post is killing me

It seems to me like a lot of "beard" products are just marked up versions of things you can get cheaper when they're not called "beard" -- mild soaps, oils, creams etc. I noticed one beard product had something called argan oil in it, and a shampoo/conditioner we had bought at costco came with this little free vial of argan oil, so I just started using that in my beard and it seems to kind of make it softer and make my skin under it happier, I guess. I imagine same is true with a lot of these man-grooming products. I think the trope that men don't go for stuff like that is actually a positive one, good to be economical and not fall for consumer gimmicks. Of course, if you're more into fine grooming products and self-pampering I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all, do whatever makes you happy. Certainly I have gotten more into higher quality clothing, something I once saw as "unmanly."

I think the trope that men don't go for stuff like that is actually a positive one, good to be economical and not fall for consumer gimmicks

Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil

Shady scams and other silly business ideas to take advantage of earnest new vinyl collectors

lol yeah I actually had a thought along those lines even as I was typing but didn't finish forming it. I guess I should say *within the personal care sphere*

The male trope is to be into *gear*

but your face is your people stereo

beards are just subwoofers for faces

^^^ this is actually true

ZZ Top are the DJ Magic Mike of faces

your poor balls... all dry
empty and sad

I may be getting too Talmudic here but I think the use of the word "all" is meant to emphasize that BOTH of his balls are dry, whereas only one is empty and one (the other one) is sad

No, you don't get it, "empty" and "sad" are my names for my dog balls

can you buy fuzzy zz-top covers for different guitar bodies?

i already regret making this point but isn't "emptying your balls" a masculine goal and not a cause for sadness?

balls must be emptied yet they must always be full

-anonymous and ancient zen master of manliness

The eternal ouroboros of balls

What is the sound of one testicle clapping?

Fap

me and the boys after the vaccine drops

pic.twitter.com/3vrHZotrkS

— good and bad idiot (@focra) December 18, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va5T077Kbro

BuzzFeed: This Is What It's Like For Men With Eating Disorders

Kyle was trying to be honest about when his body image issues started, but he also wanted to be polite. “My mom is in the room, so I don’t want to say anything offensive,” the 16-year-old California high schooler told me in an interview in January. “But I don’t know a single member of my family over 40 who hasn’t been on Weight Watchers.”

Early on — at about 12 years old — Kyle became anxious about his weight. “With this history of diabetes and hereditary obesity, I was pretty certain that I needed to eat healthy,” he said. That’s when he started to jog every morning. For lunch, he had a salad without dressing every day.

By 15, he was cramming hours of physical activity into each day, without eating much. “I would leave the house at about 5:50 a.m., then run to the gym, work out for an hour, go to school for eight hours. Then I would go to dance rehearsals for four hours, and not make it home until about 10 p.m.,” Kyle said. “Not only was I overtaxing my body and mind and everything, but I didn’t eat any carbs. I was vegan. Pretty much tofu and lettuce, that’s all I ate.”

Kyle attributed some of his body insecurity to what he was reading and seeing in culture, notably in Harry Potter. “Teenagers are supposed to ‘shoot straight up,’ especially teenage boys. I mean, in Harry Potter, they talk about how without any work, Harry just shot up. And it made me realize a lot of my friends were that stereotypical teenage boy who had just grown 6 inches over the summer. And that wasn’t happening with me,” Kyle said. “And that was very disappointing when I was getting messages from real life and the media that my body didn't fit into any of those ideal paradigms.”

Kyle’s parents noticed that he had lost a significant amount of weight rapidly, and started researching whether this could be a problem. Meanwhile, the teen thought the weight loss was evidence that he was on the right path. “I thought losing weight was just a sign of a healthy diet and exercise,” he said. So when he sat across from a panel of specialists — a doctor, a dietitian, and a psychotherapist — and was given an atypical anorexia diagnosis, he was taken aback.

He was only half listening when the specialists said he had to go to the hospital. “I was like, ‘OK, that’s cool. I have a couple of tests this week. Can I go to the hospital next week or next month or something?’” No, they told him. “They said, ‘You have about an hour to pack, and we want you at the hospital by dinner.’”

I lost 70 lbs in about a year during my freshman and sophomore years of high school, around the time that my parents first rejected my coming out as gay.

When they rejected my coming out the second time, when I was 17, I had stopped restricting calories and overexercising, but instead went headlong into the world of alcohol and drugs and other substances.

I finally came out to them successfully at the age of 23.

But all of that has left lasting problems, least of which is imagining what my life could have been like if I hadn't spent so many years in a haze of semi-closeted substance abuse.

Anyway, I'm fine with talking about all of this pretty openly, obviously.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42fo_9XIAE5Y31?format=jpg&name=large