White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (1056 of them)

No offense, ethan, I see your side of the argument but I think that if a "huge majority" of Americans would find a kid dressed up as their favorite athlete on Halloween "inexcusable" then A) there'd be pretty much no argument on this thread B) it wouldn't have happened.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

and my white friends wear tshirts with chinese writings on them :((

and i sometimes wear tshirts with english writings on them :((((

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

brits who are baffled by apu on the simpsons

I don't know that we are. Why do you think this ethan?

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm baffled by apu on 'the simpsons' because he is a racist caricature out of 70s british sitcoms.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

come on mark, a majority of us find apu inexcusable

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

are you two being sarcastic?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh Mark there was a thread in which a group of Brits who I actually cannot recall right now went nuts over how "racist" Apu obviously is, I do remember that thread, he's right. Note that he's saying "Brits who..." which does not imply "All british people," so don't get too bothered.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm more baffled by the lack of white people living in Springfield

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

It'd be a lot easier to have sympathy for Andy and Ethan's argument if one of them wasn't prancing around with the white man's guilt ONLY TEH BLACKS CAN LIKE TEH NEGRO LEAGUE HAT bullshit and the other one wasn't comparing Ben Wallace to Hitler.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:39 (eighteen years ago) link

flip a coin, stevem.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah honestly xpost. kind of losing the perspective a little innit!

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

roflz

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Also wtf kind of person gives someone else shit for wearing a Negro Leagues hat?

Honoring the Negro Leagues is obviously a good and necessary thing, but again, there's the context. It sort of irritates me in the same way as the NYFD hats worn outside of NY by people who would never be firefighters in a million years. I need to elaborate here...

Hopefully I can explain more and answer other stuff when I'm off work.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

in which actual context is this not offensive?

Er, I wasn't saying that image was not offensive at all in Finland. What I was saying is that the lack of black population in Finland made people ignorant of the connotations of such images. Sure, most folks would recognize it as crude caricature of a black man, but they didn't probably know about the history of such racist images, so they didn't see it that much more offensive as a caricature of, say, a Frenchman with a big nose and a beret, or an American with a cowboy hat and a revolver. So, while the image probably offended, say, Africans visiting Finland, it most likely wasn't that offensive to the majority of people because they didn't know the historical context of it.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:42 (eighteen years ago) link

So much for your beloved socialist education system, faggo.

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, Tuomas, most "cowboys" were black or hispanic. And "Africans" and "African-Americans" have very different ideas of self concept.

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

"Unforgivable" is a silly word to throw around if the tot is just emulating a star ("but Dad, I want to be Ben Vereen when I grow up!"), but it probably would be a good idea to let your kid kid know WHY people might not appreciate it.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Is blackface inherently offensive when it is used as a dramatic device (of questionable effectivenes, granted) towards some kind of racial understanding?

q.v.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005UWAB.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.millionaireplayboy.com/images/blackloiscover.jpg

http://www.impawards.com/1986/posters/soul_man.jpg

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Next Halloween, I'm going as Lawrence Taylor.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm sure *some* people in finland may have had *some* knowledge of the outside world before it had a black population.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Soul Man rubbed me so wrong. CURSE YOU, COMEDY CENTRAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe next year I'll pull a White Chicks and dress like Paris Hilton or something.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, god forbid people's fashion choices go to support worthy organizations instead of purchasing their 17th Yankees hat (now in Lime Green!)...?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

http://movies.nnov.ru/Covers/Weekend%20At%20Bernie

This movie offended me because the two hapless black voodoo victims did not end up teaming up with the lily white protagonists against the wicked creole voodoo! That would have made this so much better.

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:49 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm sure *some* people in finland may have had *some* knowledge of the outside world before it had a black population.

Hence my usage of words "most" and "majority".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually I'd have given those kids a "WTF?" and maybe some shit on blacking their faces to be Ben Wallace. Boo fucking hoo if they don't have black faces they're not authentic. They're probably not 6'whatever either. And last time I checked most of the zombies aren't actually undead, even if most of the slutty nurses are actually sluts.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Spike Lee has shown us that even making up black people in blackface can be considered offensive!

http://www.cinema-city.com/bamboozled.jpg

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, god forbid people's fashion choices go to support worthy organizations instead of purchasing their 17th Yankees hat (now in Lime Green!)...?

New Era gets the money in both cases.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:54 (eighteen years ago) link

The thing is, I can understand why someone would be bothered in some way by a kid doing this, and maybe give them some crap or crack a joke about them, but in what realm is this similar to actual blackface or minstrelry? Isn't it a good thing that a kid, of any race, looks up to this person and wants to emulate them? He's not making fun of him or ridiculing him, he wants to be him and dress like him! I'm not sure how that can truly be considered offensive. This isn't even on the same spectrum much less "part of the same issue," and I think that claiming it is is a rather massive disservice, the same way certain ILXors screaming sexism every time someone disagrees with them is a rather huge disservice to a cause. Get one perspective.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Andy, who the hell do you think New Era licences those things from? God? Steinbrenner? Ben Wallace?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:55 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/resource.aspx?id=17634

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Ghost Dog

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/09/30/48m.jpg

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.bravenewworld.demon.co.uk/films/ghostworld/ghostworld4.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, Tuomas, most "cowboys" were black or hispanic. And "Africans" and "African-Americans" have very different ideas of self concept.
-- jdubz (dr_...), November 1st, 2005 3:45 PM. (ex machina) (later) (link)

are you trying to say "africans" are also faggos who love their socialist education systems?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

But in an interview on Friday with The Associated Press, Mr. Fox weighed in, noting that he himself had grown up with the comic books, in which Memin, which made its debut in the 1940s, is portrayed as lazy and mischievous.
The stamp shows a "character very loved in Mexico and that has absolutely nothing discriminatory about it," the president said. "Frankly I don't understand the reaction."
...

In May, Mr. Fox initially refused to apologize for a comment stating that Mexicans cross the border to take jobs that "not even blacks" want. The comment led to a meeting with the Rev. Jesse Jackson and an eventual rapprochement.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2203001011.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

i wasnt comparing a kid blacked up as ben wallace to a kid dressed hitler, i was comparing two offensive costumes!! ghosts are scary, hitler is scary, you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume, but it would offend a lot of people, even though halloween costumes are about scaring people!! its baldly disingenous to pretend that i was trying to say that admiring black athletes is like the holocaust or whatever the fuck yall are doing- like i clarified above, offensive in practice not intent

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/actors/ted-danson/danson-blackface-1.jpg

BECKER!

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

It'd be kinda funny if he just found Ben Wallace really scary (but not because he was a black man).

It's making me wonder if you were to ask people what are the first three physical 'characteristics' they would associate with Ben Wallace, one of the three answers would be 'dark skin' or similar. And whether that is wrong and the sort of thing to be discouraged (skin colour tending to be one of the first 'characteristics' when Caucasians describe non-Caucasians).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:04 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.segabastard.com/db/tom2.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.bethpagemassage.com/newsite/images/mud_pack.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

ghosts are scary, hitler is scary, you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume

ethan you're grasping now. Also, I saw that South Park episode too.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I just suddenly remembered that for Halloween 1990 (at the height of the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait) I went as an Arab, complete with head scarf and fake beard.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Andy, who the hell do you think New Era licences those things from? God? Steinbrenner? Ben Wallace?

Are the Birmingham Black Barons playing in a new stadium with their cut?

I really doubt that New Era has put all of their profits from Negro Leagues merchandise into the pockets of the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Negro Leagues vets. I could see a few museum displays, perhaps.

(I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOMEONE TO PROVE ME WRONG HERE.)

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

and this whole 'admiration' thing is a lame cop-out, since when does positivity excuse racism?? is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to athleticism and have natural rhythm, or that jews are good with money?

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan your last post still suggested that most americans would find what this kid did 'inexcusable.' i don't know why you feel misrepresented.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

im only grasping because it was a stupid one-off analogy which everyone pounced on so they could ignore everything else i said

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

and for the record i dont have any problem w/ white folks in negro leagues hats/jerseys/whatever, no different from me wearing a 2pac shirt

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

i think we need to define what 'inexcusable' means. that he should be grounded? spanked? tried as an adult? or just that he should go home and put on that Paul Wall outfit his mother bought him in the first place.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Skipping 956 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.