Post a controversial music opinion

Agree they had no discipline. But that was, like, part of the trip, man.

idk if "squandered" is really the right word. sure, maybe you don't like their music, but they still probably are the most successful american rock band of all time, in their own way.

Man there are plenty of absolutely valid criticisms to lob at the Dead, but I think "no discipline" is... incorrect, at least in their early years. The practiced and played out constantly, which is absolutely one level of discipline.

I'm open to anti-Dead hot takes just to counter act the current hipster Deadhead phenomenon

10k Maniacs are from Jamestown NY which is not far from Buffalo, certainly a lake erie/western new york thing going on with Merchant's accent but with a definite seasoning that is, uh, all her own

xxp I was gonna say the same thing. It’s not like they sat around on their butts, they worked all the time.

Yeah, the Grateful Dead busted their asses to be that terrible.

"The acid tests were great because sometimes we were too stoned to play, so we didn't have to."— Mr. Garcia, MD

(that's "Master of Discipline")

I like the Dead. They're amazing. But, uhh.

Natalie Merchant wrote one truly great song, imo, which is "Verdi Cries." I'm not sure how she did it.

Was assuming he meant musical discipline not work ethic wrt the Dead?

What is "musical discipline"?

jerry saltz knows all about it

anyway it's funny to me that i posted that and this thread is now talking about it and i'm going down a natalie merchant rabbit hole instead

i guess in a certain sense wringing 20 minutes out of "good lovin" takes discipline, versus just moving on to a different song

does it?

who is jerry saltz, anyway? is he some kind of music crit skip bayless?

Natalie Merchant wrote one truly great song, imo, which is "Verdi Cries." I'm not sure how she did it.
I didn't know that song, but I kind of liked "Like the Weather." It's probably the only song they've done that I'd enjoy listening to again.

xp He looks like a parody of an art critic, though I guess he's a real one.

like the weather is a real nice slice o' college rock

i'm envisioning an alternate universe where bob and jerry are super disciplined first call LA session dudes in the 70s and 80s wearing t shirts and baggy suits

https://i2.wp.com/liveforlivemusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/grateful-dead-letterman-1987.png?resize=740%2C389&ssl=1

"Ah, well, shit Jer.. we gotta hit the sack, early call tomorrow for that Toto record."

that's my new favorite thing that has ever happened on this forum

I love the dead but really don’t get the hipster dead revival... is it all ironic like when hipsters got into metal or whatever? *ducks incoming cabbage*

I guess I once never thought chambray shirts would look cool, anything’s possible

I love the dead but really don’t get the hipster dead revival... is it all ironic like when hipsters got into metal or whatever? *ducks incoming cabbage*

― brimstead, Friday, December 4, 2020 5:43 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hipsters grew out of irony a long time ago. Un-ironic embrace of all things that at one point were deemed cheesy is the new hipster lifeblood.

post-irony

I hear we're now in the age of post-post-irony.

Many xps (and any Wilco-phobes, don't let that put you off)

Natalie in excelsis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mUmTMvNWyo

To answer the Grateful Dead revival question: growing up, all we knew was "Touch of Grey", which is fine when you're eight or nine. But that was all we knew. When I actually went and tracked down Live/Dead and American Beauty in my mid-late 20s, it was just very solid classic rock. I genuinely didn't understand the bad reputation that the Dead had accumulated in retrospect. I guess it wasn't very cool music in the time of Nirvana and Weezer, but when we actually sat down with their classic late 60s / early 70s albums, I was genuinely confused as to where the bad reputation stemmed from. I recall a coworker at the used record store where we worked acting genuinely surprised that a person our age would be into that music, but to me it was like, well. . . if you like stuff like Pink Floyd and Neil Young —y'know, typical classic rock favorites— there's zero reason that you shouldn't be able to find similar things to like about the Dead.

It's funny that you bring up Wilco, Chinaski. They were my roundabout gateway into the Dead. We were listening to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot in my car around the time it was new while giving a different coworker a ride home and he was a guy who knew pretty much everything there is to know about classic rock and he said, in a very genuine way, "What Dead album is this? I don't recognize it." And that piqued my curiosity, so I checked out Workingman's Dead a few days later and absolutely loved it.

Funny, i've always thought Jerry Saltz is a pretty good writer who squandred his talent on glorifying his position and pandering to the lowest common denominator.

The grateful dead's t-shirts >>>>>>>>>>> the grateful dead's music, anyhow.

Parking lot>>>>>stage area

Part of it is that more alt people understand the way the Dead subculture is part of the wider alternative culture. IG accounts like fad Albert and passedoutwooks and stuff spread that knowledge around, and it's something that a lot of people could recognize but not name before, exactly... Most people who are into sub- or counter- cultural formations know someone who is a Deadhead, but the drugs and ethos has become more widely understood, in other words. I blame Burners, personally.

“Touch of grey” is pretty profound when you’re 4 or 5... “The abcs...” yeah Jerry I feel you

It’s still been weird this year to see LeBron and Questlove rocking Dead shirts.

people tend to overrated or underrate the Dead, except me, I like them the correct amount

if you like stuff like Pink Floyd and Neil Young —y'know, typical classic rock favorites— there's zero reason that you shouldn't be able to find similar things to like about the Dead.

Except that the members of Pink Floyd and various Neil Young backing bands included drummers that could count to four without getting lost, and bassists who could remember what song they were playing, and they all generally could tell when a song was over and they should stop, take a moment, and start another one.

things were better when the dad rock legends were generally considered to be the enemy

When was that? By whom?

The Dead are big on college campuses (or at least used to be); it would have been hard not to encounter their music and fans, and maybe get introduced to it yourself.

(I mean, I guess this is obvious - but it's why I scratch my head a little at the "How/why do people get into the Dead?" question)

(it helps if you like music and have open ears, of course)

It's a bit weird, the culture threw me off too much for me to get into it in my late teens and early twenties, but I was deeply into free jazz, NNCK, noise stuff, and etc when I was that age, and I did a lot of drugs. The way the culture seemed so commodified-- and what I then viewed as the rather abysmal tunage-- was enough to make me dislike the dead instinctively until pretty recently, tbh

xps in the 00s by most people I knew

the dead have no fans in the UK afaict

that's a rhetorical statement so exceptions would miss the point

Except that the members of Pink Floyd and various Neil Young backing bands included drummers that could count to four without getting lost, and bassists who could remember what song they were playing, and they all generally could tell when a song was over and they should stop, take a moment, and start another one.

Dunno, I always though that Floyd, the Dead and Crazy Horse all had the ploddiest drummers in rock (deliberately in Ralph Molina's case I guess). Not sure Roger Waters could remember what song he was playing either.

I always though that Floyd, the Dead and Crazy Horse all had the ploddiest drummers in rock (deliberately in Ralph Molina's case I guess).

Nick Mason's a great drummer.

yeah a slow style isn't necessarily plodding

I really liked John Oswald’s 1994/1995 albums that comprised Grayfolded - Transitive Axis and Mirror Ashes - where he  built, layered, and "folded" over 100 versions of The Dead’s “Dark Star” to produce two large recomposed versions, each about one hour long

Nick Mason’s drumming style is economical and it rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTlpFr3jd4s