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I guess I mean “songs that have the Motown sound” rather than literally every release on the label

Shady's feat. on "Calm Down" might be his best verse ever

I'm not big into Motown either – but I've always erred on the side of assuming that it is due to overfamiliarity (hearing those hits 1000s of times growing up, on soundtracks, commercials, etc.).

that makes me sad, I suck all of that up, some of my fav music

the “big” production style, the hard-to-follow chord progressions

oh gosh, do i in fact like motown

the sound of young prog america

Considering how much I love '60s female pop/soul/etc., I almost feel guilty when the Supremes (all of group) come on and leave me cold.

Huh. Is it Diana's voice? The songs themselves?

The “big” production style and hard-to-follow chord progressions.

For me, I guess both - I admit I don't love her voice.

I should delve into some deeper cuts tho; maybe I'll do that now.

I didn't really "get" the hype about Motown until the Complete Motown Singles CD sets started being released. I convinced my mom to get them for my dad, and then would steal them for myself for a few months. Hearing the breadth of how much was being recorded and how the sound was developed allowed me to really understand why certain artists were more popular that others, even if those more popular artists were never my faves.

Our Time In Eden is the equal of Heaven or Las Vegas

i don't understand "hard to follow chord progressions," surely this doesn't apply to songs like "my girl" or "tracks of my tears"?

Of course Motown’s production was big: they wanted as many high-charting hits as possible. For a record label, “small” or understated production as a long-term vision just isn’t gonna deliver the hits, especially not in the US chart scene of the ‘60s (to say nothing of the competition among the Motown producers and composers). Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy said you have to grip the listener within the first few seconds; that’s why so many Motown hits have the same drum-pickup-intro, and the same big production.

I’m certainly not trying to say I’m right to dislike Motown! This is a failing of mine, no doubt. The particular song that exemplifies what I’m thinking of most is Reach Out I'll Be There—listening to it gives me vertigo or something! It’s like what I imagine sky diving is like in the moments before you pull the chute

And now that I look it up, of course, there’s nothing complicated about the chords in that song at all. So why does it feel so “difficult” to me?

The chord progression IS pretty tricky imo!

The verse is a ii-V over and over that doesn't resolve to I until they sing "reach out" and then after two bars it modulates to the relative minor for the chorus via a chromatic mediant - and then (in this key) you get the major I before you get the i chord.

am i wrong in thinking there's some inversion/bass note trickery in that song, too?

It’s hard to sing along with! (for me)

how anybody could fail to be heartbroken by hearing Diana Ross sing “I’m all alone now” to sad needling flutes in “reflections”

is a mystery

no I mean it’s ok

am i wrong in thinking there's some inversion/bass note trickery in that song, too?

It just lacks some spark for me; like the peaks and edges are all sanded down. It’s hard to explain... just a weakness in my personal taste, I guess.

I can't comprehend not liking a song James Jamerson plays bass on

The “big” production style and hard-to-follow chord progressions.

― ILXceptionalism (Tom D.), Thursday, December 3, 2020 3:21 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao

(I do love “Band of Gold,” but I guess that’s not technically Motown)

The particular song that exemplifies what I’m thinking of most is Reach Out I'll Be There—listening to it gives me vertigo or something!

oh me too, except this is why i think the song is so awesome, total leaning tower of melodies

Saying you don’t like Motown is like saying “I don’t like music from LA”, that said, Diana Ross is not my favourite at all

motown vs stax FIGHT

i like to rock

I love when fgti chimes in – he always seems to somehow simultaneously back me up and call me out, lol

Reach Out is hardly a typical Motown song, tho surely? The chord progression, the fact that it's difficult to sing...H-D-H were deliberately aiming for a "Like a Rolling Stone" feel:a conscious departure from their usual style.

Our Time In Eden is the equal of Heaven or Las Vegas

― cerebral halsey (rip van wanko), Thursday, December 3, 2020 4:05 PM (yesterday)

i am currently sitting here giving Our Time In Eden an honest, sympathetic listen. never listened to 10K maniacs before, on purpose

NOPE

the 10K twins are fine, it's nothing against them. really.

but cocteau twins are so much better

It's odd, the total banality of Merchant's solo material only made me like 10,000 Maniacs more. I can't think of them in the same world as Cocteau Twins because CT are functional (they work at dinner parties and on mixes) and 10,000 Maniacs are a very private personal enjoyment, for me

10k maniacs is indeed good. I like Merchant’s homemade accent.

tigerlily is a solid album

Her accent may be my biggest barrier to enjoying them

They feel very weirdly like a band I have always been aware of but have no connection to whatsoever. I remember their existence in the 80s, when I was a kid and thought they had an interesting name but knew no one who listened to them. I hear them once in a while and never feel much. What accent does Merchant have? Isn't she from around Buffalo? There's a definite Buffalo/Rochester accent I'm v familiar with but I don't recall her vowels reminding me of it.

I'm not just being an asshole, although I'm definitely being that. It actually sort of intrigues me how disconnected I feel from them.

The only thing I remember about them is their MTV Unplugged cover of 'Because the Night'.

I never thought of it as an accent so much as an affected quirk

i spent a post drunk evening listening to the Maniacs last week, when they was good they was very very good

Oh, I thought that was solo Merchant but apparently it was the whole band.xps

It’s hard to sing along with! (for me)

I think it's probably fairly objectively difficult, although actual singers could say more - in addition to tracking those tricky changes, in the verse, the singer mostly sings the chordal 7th over the ii chord (i.e. Gb over Abm7), which then resolves UP to Ab when the harmony moves to the V chord (Db) - the standard thing is for the seventh to resolve downwards. The "darling" just before "reach out" is a chordal 9th. And in the chorus, after hearing a bar of Eb (with G as the third), he has to sing Gbs in the next bar, when the harmony becomes Ebm. However, I also agree with the people who are saying that this is not a typical Motown songs and a lot of the big hits like "Tracks of My Tears", "My Girl", "You Can't Hurry Love", etc are more straightforward.

I always think 10k Maniacs want you to feel rooted in reality, whereas the Cocteaus want to escape reality. The former have some decent early material, the latter are obviously great, I don't think it makes sense to compare them when they're trying to do very different things.

Cocteau Twins are a swaying-in-place band; 10,000 Maniacs are a twirling-in-circles band.