Rolling Jazz Thread 2020

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I'm not sure if this is the thread for general jazz questions I have been pondering...

To what extent are contemporary jazz musicians expected to be composers, or evaluated on their compositional skills?
Would a jazz artist or group who never writes their own material be regarded as a lightweight or novelty, as I suppose is still the case in rock?
Have the last 30 or 40 years of jazz produced any often covered jazz standards like Take Five, 'round Midnight, etc?
Is it unfair to judge recent jazz records by the fact that "none of the songs caught on" and became standards, as does one critic I have been reading?

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 29 November 2020 17:33 (three years ago) link

I mean, people can judge records on any grounds they want but I'm not sure you're getting the point if you say that Ben Monder has failed since no one calls out "Echolalia" at jams.

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Sunday, 29 November 2020 18:12 (three years ago) link

It's no "Wonderwall", that's for sure.

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Sunday, 29 November 2020 18:21 (three years ago) link

Yes, unlike some itt I am nowhere near an expert, but that particular take (whither standards) strikes me as kind of anachronistic: that's just not as strong an element of jazz culture as it once was. Contemporary players don't tend to cover show tunes or film themes anymore either.

rob, Sunday, 29 November 2020 18:21 (three years ago) link

To what extent are contemporary jazz musicians expected to be composers, or evaluated on their compositional skills?
Depends on the scene or subgenre they're operating in. Kamasi Washington is not being judged by the same standards as Vijay Iyer, despite the fact that they both write their own material.

Would a jazz artist or group who never writes their own material be regarded as a lightweight or novelty, as I suppose is still the case in rock?
Such a thing is vanishingly rare these days; the first examples that come to mind are Broken Shadows and Roots Magic, both of which are explicitly repertory/tribute projects. But Broken Shadows is made up of guys who already have a strong reputation as composers (Tim Berne, two of the guys from the Bad Plus) so it's clearly seen as a fun side project, and judged as such.

Have the last 30 or 40 years of jazz produced any often covered jazz standards like Take Five, 'round Midnight, etc?
No, but that's because the market has changed. Those songs were not just performed by jazz groups; they were hit records that the general public, or at least a sizable swath of it, would recognize. That doesn't happen anymore. Jazz musicians do record each other's compositions sometimes, but as the scene has become smaller and smaller, it's become more and more important to make a name as a total creative artist who writes and performs one's own material.

Is it unfair to judge recent jazz records by the fact that "none of the songs caught on" and became standards, as does one critic I have been reading?
Yes.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 29 November 2020 18:23 (three years ago) link

I think you can lament the fact that songs don't become standards anymore, but you can't hold it against individual records or musicians. That sounds kind of like criticizing jazz artists for the fact that jazz isn't popular--the cultural momentum is out of anyone's control.

jmm, Sunday, 29 November 2020 18:31 (three years ago) link

Rockit is a jazz standard!

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Monday, 30 November 2020 00:13 (three years ago) link

A third volume in BBE's J-Jazz series will be released in February. I've already pre-ordered mine. (N.B.: The CD version has three more tracks than the vinyl.)

https://bbemusic.bandcamp.com/album/j-jazz-volume-3-deep-modernjazz-from-japan

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 30 November 2020 14:37 (three years ago) link

I'd be curious what the most recent tunes getting played at jam sessions (and by college groups) were. I'm sure there are some.

Like when I was in school, some '90s tunes had definitely become modern standards (Kenny Garrett 'Sing a Song of Song', the theme from Mo' Betta Blues, etc). And aside from jazz artists recording each other's tunes on official releases, I think you'd have to look at the youtube culture of lesser-known jazz musicians doing covers, there's tons of that.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 30 November 2020 16:06 (three years ago) link

I think quite a few Stevie Wonder tunes count as standards now. possibly a couple of later Ornette compositions. if Global Warming by Sonny Rollins isn't a standard yet it should be

there have been several attempts with Radiohead which I'd rather forget

Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 19:05 (three years ago) link

Yes, I was specifically thinking about standards written by jazz musicians, so the Ornette and Rollins might apply.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link

Which Ornette are you thinking about? Are any of these tunes e.g. in the Real Book?

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:52 (three years ago) link

probably not. I’ve heard a few covers of 80s tunes like kathelin gray, feet music, latin genetics, song x, mob job (idk if some of those tunes are older) but probably not ubiquitous enough to be considered true standards, they should be though

Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:12 (three years ago) link

I feel like there have been a ton of versions of "Lonely Woman," but that's 60 years old.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:13 (three years ago) link

oh man this dolphy solo on “head shakin” though

Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:21 (three years ago) link

Smalls livestream is great right now.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 30 November 2020 22:35 (three years ago) link

Man International Anthem is having such an incredible year. My copy of the new Exploding Star Orchestra showed up today and it is absolutely pushing so many buttons for me, I like the vibe so far.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 30 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link

steve potts holy grail being reissued on CD and LP:

https://www.forcedexposure.com/Catalog/potts-steve-musique-pour-le-film-d-un-ami-lp/FFL.062LP.html

budo jeru, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 01:37 (three years ago) link

Checked out the Karuna Trio's (Adam Rudolph, Ralph M. Jones & Hamid Drake) Imaginary Archipelago after flipping through Ted Gioa's EOY list. It's a solid Codona impression, and more besides. Also belatedly caught up with Dan Weiss / Starebaby's latest, which drove home, in reverse, why I struggle with instrumental metal: the players are almost never as virtuosic and imaginative as they are here.

Hearing Hamid Drake again reminded me of how much I enjoy his playing. If anyone's heard it, how's Every Dog Has Its Day But It Doesn't Matter Because Fat Cat Is Getting Fatter (great title btw)?

pomenitul, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 02:27 (three years ago) link

karuna trio sounds promising!

budo jeru, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 02:54 (three years ago) link

I've heard the Mat Walerian record. It's free jazz, but very meditative - he's big into Japanese philosophy and that kind of Zen-ness shows up in his work, but not in a kitschy way. All of his records are at least worth hearing.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 03:23 (three years ago) link

Sounds cool, thanks.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 03:28 (three years ago) link

Is that this?: https://esp5037.bandcamp.com

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 03:30 (three years ago) link

Yep, that's the one.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 03:41 (three years ago) link

enoying that. did mat walerian write his own wikipedia page?

budo jeru, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 04:36 (three years ago) link

I liked the first piece a lot. Vibe reminded me a bit of Sonoluminescence Trio, which also includes William Parker.

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 04:57 (three years ago) link

The Jazz Standard, one of NYC's best clubs, has closed. The last time I was there was at the end of January, to see Vijay Iyer, Linda May Han Oh, and Tyshawn Sorey; I wrote about it here.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 16:47 (three years ago) link

Ugh. RIP. I had no use spent so much time at that place, no words.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 16:56 (three years ago) link

well fuck

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 17:20 (three years ago) link

on the other hand, Birdland is reopening?
https://www.birdlandjazz.com/calendar/

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link

Interesting. I watched a lot of those Sunday night virtual shows.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 19:35 (three years ago) link

Really enjoying the Okuden Quartet (Walerian/Shipp/Parker/Drake) record, thanks. Calm, spacious free jazz is the best free jazz.

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 21:27 (three years ago) link

sure, on wednesday

budo jeru, Thursday, 3 December 2020 02:32 (three years ago) link

Have you guys been watching the Smalls feed on Friendbook? Good stuff. Really good piano and guitar duo right now.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 December 2020 00:24 (three years ago) link

NY Times Jazz Top Ten--I'm ignorant of most, but thrilled to see Dialectic Soul incl.! Playlist at end: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/arts/music/best-jazz-albums.html

dow, Friday, 4 December 2020 04:29 (three years ago) link

Currently enjoying the Susan Alcorn album from that list, it's got a good vibe and the pedal steel is really great in that context.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 4 December 2020 15:57 (three years ago) link

Yeah, that's a great record. Didn't make my own year-end list, but I liked it a lot.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 4 December 2020 18:50 (three years ago) link

Briefly dipped into the unfamiliar-to-me releases on that list and the Lloyd, Gamedze and Alcorn are all sounding great.

pomenitul, Friday, 4 December 2020 20:49 (three years ago) link

That is a seriously stacked band on the Charles Lloyd album

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 4 December 2020 22:53 (three years ago) link

How that Ron Miles record mentioned on another thread? Didn't know he had a new one.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 December 2020 23:57 (three years ago) link

Okay, hadn't looked at the lineup on that Charles Lloyd record until just now but yeah.

Robert Gotopieces (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 December 2020 23:59 (three years ago) link

Dezron Douglas/Brandee Younger album is really pleasant and enjoyable: https://intlanthem.bandcamp.com/album/force-majeure

actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Sunday, 6 December 2020 05:28 (three years ago) link

I like that, it's very pretty and simple and it swings a bit as well.

calzino, Sunday, 6 December 2020 12:56 (three years ago) link

Yeah, it's a really nice record. I saw them perform as a duo opening for Tony Allen in 2019.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 6 December 2020 13:21 (three years ago) link

What a likeable album!

pomenitul, Sunday, 6 December 2020 15:21 (three years ago) link

one of my fave swinging bass-player+1 duo albums is the classic Ray Brown/Duke Ellington one This One's For Blanton. I'm not saying it sounds like this one, but similar vibes.

calzino, Sunday, 6 December 2020 15:37 (three years ago) link

With all due respect to John Surman, the interplay between Anouar Brahem and Dave Holland on Thimar makes me wish they'd done a proper duo LP. Bass + plucked strings is an underused configuration, to be sure.

I haven't heard the Ellington/Brown but it's an appealing premise.

pomenitul, Sunday, 6 December 2020 16:08 (three years ago) link

Ray Brown swings so hard even your eyes are trying to tap their toes!

calzino, Sunday, 6 December 2020 16:29 (three years ago) link

It's nothing you haven't heard before but Matthew Halsall's Salute to the Sun is the kind of flutey, chilled out spiritual jazz I'll never get sick of:

https://matthewhalsall.bandcamp.com/album/salute-to-the-sun

pomenitul, Sunday, 6 December 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link


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