DC Implosion II: DC Comics in 2020 and Beyond

Hibbs estimating the implosion:

I can’t see any path that doesn’t cripple DC with these changes to distribution and staffing for the DM – sales are absolutely off on the “bread and butter” of DC’s line in a way that is largely disguised by “Joker War”, “Death Metal” and “Three Jokers” all hitting at the exact same time – and I am 100% certain that these hits were substantially smaller hits than they could have been had DC not tried to force retailers to buy from their largest competitors. But those hits were long-gestating, and are unlikely to be repeated into 2021 based upon what we know of DC’s plans. The first launch of ’21, “Future State”, appears from the outside to be pure commercial death, and DC seems to be suggesting that they’re consciously moving away from continuity this year – the thing that’s actually the “secret sauce” that keeps their production ticking along.

Much like Heroes World and Marvel in 1995, it’s nearly impossible to see how this plan could tick along for more than two years or so, and the hollowing out of staff and services at DC would seem to me to guarantee that DC will be nothing but weaker at the end of this inning. My firmest expectation is that DC will no longer personally be selling comics by January of 2022, and instead will move to licensing them out to another publisher.

https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-282-the-end-days-of-dc-comics/

seems right

increasingly, my guess is that AT&T sells the entire IP to Disney for more than 10% of a trillion dollars and Marvel rebrands the DC universe as a line, which merges the big two into one and saves the superhero comic pamphlet industry for about three more years while the DC vs Marvel movies get made

When will the "Marvel vs. DC" movie happen

They've been announcing creative teams for the series debuting in March
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2020/12/6/22150302/batman-detective-comics-dc-mariko-tamaki

I liked the concept of Future State but as usual hate how it was split up in a billion series

The Future of DC Films: Two Batman Stories, Six Movies Per Year Split Between Theaters and HBO Max

To make all the story lines work, DC Films will introduce movie audiences to a comics concept known as the multiverse: parallel worlds where different versions of the same character exist simultaneously. Coming up, for instance, Warner Bros. will have two different film sagas involving Batman — played by two different actors — running at the same time.

So on the one hand this is finally an implicit admission that they have no idea how to build an MCU-style universe. But on the other hand...four theatrically-released DC movies every year. So ahead and strap on those wings again, there, Icarus! Should be fine!

Serious question: is the TV division considered a success? I mean, even Gotham somehow made it to 100 episodes.

I guess so? It comprises something like 80% of the CW's schedule at this point.

Talk about burying the lead!

“‘The Flash,’ a film set for release in theaters in 2022, will link the two universes and feature two Batmans, with Mr. Affleck returning as one and Michael Keaton returning as the other. Mr. Keaton played Batman in 1989 and 1992.”

The Flash film has been in development since 2004, at one point was meant to launch the DC movie universe by spinning off of George Miller's Justice League, and was re-announced in 2014 for a 2018 release. Since then, they've signed and parted with Lord & Miller (as writers, the pair declining to direct), Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter author Seth Grahame-Smith (as writer/director), Dope writer/director Rick Famiyuwa (as director and maybe not writer?), King Arthur: Legend Of The Sword co-writer Joby Harold as writer, pursued Zemeckis, Raimi, Marc Webb and Matthew Vaughan as directors before asking Lord & Miller again, signed The Incredible Burt Wonderstone writers Daley & Goldstein as directors, then 18 months later signed It Part Two director Andres Muschetti to direct, and Bumblebee writer Christina Hodson to write.

Keaton was announced as returning in June, Affleck in August.

Absolutely can't see any impediments to them speeding up their pipeline enough to get six features produced each year.

lol

Here's the NYT interview piece:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/27/business/media/dc-superheroes-movies.html
this sounds like a straight-up trainwreck.

I would suggest to them that six features a year is simply an act of timidity. Triple that and we'll talk, DC. And put a different Batman in each one. And release them all simultaneously.

I can't believe I used to believe that bigwigs became bigwigs via the demonstration of competence.

“In the past, we were so secretive,” Mr. Hamada said. “It was shocking to me, for example, how few people at the company were actually allowed to read scripts for the movies we are making.”

is it possible that they just didn't want to bother reading nine Flash scripts a year that weren't going to be made

So far, “Wonder Woman 1984” has collected $85 million worldwide, with $68.3 million coming from cinemas overseas, where HBO Max does not yet exist.

does this sound threatening to anyone else?

Two terrifyingly expensive movies, “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” (2016) and “Justice League” (2017), both directed by Zack Snyder, were deemed almost unwatchable by critics.

ok then

To complicate matters further, HBO Max gave Mr. Snyder more than $70 million to recut his “Justice League” and expand it with new footage. Mr. Snyder and Warner Bros. had clashed over his original vision, which the studio deemed overly grim, resulting in reshoots handled by a different director, Joss Whedon. (That didn’t go well, either.) “Zack Snyder’s Justice League,” now four hours long, will arrive in segments on HBO Max in March.

At least for now, Mr. Snyder is not part of the new DC Films blueprint, with studio executives describing his HBO Max project as a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere.

wait what

The multiverse concept has worked on television, but it is a risky strategy for big screens. These movies need to attract the widest audience possible to justify their cost, and too much of a comic nerd sensibility can be a turnoff. New actors can take over a character; James Bond is the best example. But multiple Gothams spinning in theaters?

“I don’t think anyone else has ever attempted this,” Mr. Hamada said.

I know they make a point that this guy has no interest in movies and never wanted to work in them, but James Bond is cited literally seven words earlier

It says they weren’t his “first calling,” he’s obviously been a producer for years. James Wan makes him sound like an ok guy:

“A lot of times in studio meetings, executives just repeat buzzwords, and it becomes a joke,” Mr. Wan said. “Walt always brings something constructive, useful and important to the table. He talks to me in a language that I understand.”

Fwiw, this also doesn’t really sound like a James Bond situation, or any other franchise where multiple actors have played a role but with little or no overlap (Batman would be an obvious enough example of that).

oh in that case, stack Fulci & Romero against him too :)

xpost: my point was that there have been multiple Bonds on cinema screens in 1967 and in 1983, both of which my notes suggest predate 2022

It's like a version of James Bond where they release a Connery Bond and a Moore Bond and a Dalton Bond and a Brosnan Bond all in the same year and set in four separate versions of the Bondverse.

^^

how many were written by Maibaum, and how many by Purvis & Wade?

Back to the thread topic: DC's solicitations for March feature the first issue of Infinite Frontier - the latest full DCU reboot and by my count number seven (Golden Age, Silver Age, Crisis, Infinite Crisis, New 52/Flashpoint, Rebirth, Infinite Frontier) and the fourth in fifteen years.

As part of the reboot, there are EIGHT new #1s on the way (Joker, Batman, Harley, "Crime Syndicate", Suicide Squad, Superman, Swamp Thing, Teen Titans). Those join the still ongoing Superman/Action, Batman/Detective, Superman-Batman, Catwoman, Flash, Justice League, Wonder Woman and (somehow still going?) Nightwing... all of those are in Infinite Reboot mode as well, many with new creative teams. There's a new Batman/Catwoman book by Tom King, Neal Adams is continuing his crazyverse with Ras al Ghul, Morrison is winding down Green Lantern. There's a Joker/Harley book. There's a Man Bat book. There's a new Superman anthology series called "Truth and Justice".

Beyond that we got young adult novels with Raven, Catwoman, and the phenomenally odd spectacle of Ryan North penning a young John Constantine trade; Looney Tunes somehow all the way up to #259, MAD's reprint book with a Jim Woodring cover(!).

Black Label continues with Jeff Lemire's return to Sweet Tooth, a Scott Snyder "American Vampire" book, a reboot of Batman Black and White ("risky" stories) and a Harley Quinn book. There's also the ongoing John Ridley "Other History" of the DC Universe, which is an illustrated novel retelling DCU chronology from the perspective of characters of color, and the ongoing Rorschach and Adam Strange books by Tom King. There's also a Dreaming series still continuing somehow.

So that's 37 books for March and a full universe reboot! Considerably more than we presumed as of the first post. No idea what this portends.

I tried getting on board with each of the last two reboots; should I try again for this one?

if all those authorial teams, and the satisfying results of the last four universe reboots, appeal to you based on past reading, then of course

I’ll pro’ly just buy this Infinite Frontier #0 and stick it next to Rebirth #1 on my DC shelf.

Wonder of many of those are minis. At least I know Crime Syndicate, Bat/Cat, Batman: Black and White and Other History are limited. I'm pretty okay with them doing those, especially if they're not tie-ins to some event.

The YA stuff is completely separate from DC continuity and don't really connect except for the ones done by the same authors

I actually think Rebirth was decent as far as reboots go, but just like then I'm happy just reading 95% of this stuff later through the library when there's time.

While some of the creative decisions they're making at the moment are surprising and admirable (eg Mariko Tamaki on Detective comics), I have zero confidence in DC management at this point and no interest in getting sucked back into their in-continuity titles (as opposed to the 12-15 titles/month I read prior to Flashpoint, when I hopped off the train and never looked back). The only non-reprint books of theirs I'm buying at this point are the Sandman universe stuff (almost done once Spurrier's Dreaming series ends) and the Young Animal stuff (almost done once Far Sector ends) and the odd mini (King's Strange Adventures, which is likewise almost done). Oh and Morrison's Green Lantern (which, yes, is in-continuity but thankfully self-contained aaaaaand likewise almost done).

I tried getting on board with each of the last two reboots; should I try again for this one?

The Ghost of Christmas Past is telling you that he hasn't read a current Marvel or DC book in at least two years.

on reflection my cynical mind suggests that DC bought another year of publishing budget by arguing "reboots sell!" and that this is the last gasp while AT&T attempt to arrange an IP megasale for 2022/23

you think they're really going to sell any IP? I would think the lesson of 21st Century Disney/Fox is NEVER sell your IP because 100 years later it'll still be making money

Wasn't the theory that they would license comic book publishing to Marvel?

i'm no genius with this stuff but my sense is that AT&T needs to pay off a huge chunk of debt and that IP would probably take care of that and then some to satisfy their shareholders? seems like the fastest way to clean up their books and the most intangible asset... the superhero goldmine is still a relatively recent thing and there's no guarantee that this won't go the way of cowboys and indians in the 2030's.

licensing publishing to marvel/disney would probably work as a getting-to-know you strategy while they work out numbers and terms, sure.

I think they're looking to sell off DirecTV, while the DC IP is fueling all those hit movies (I didn't realize that even Shazam! was a hit).

Marvel is so bad at publishing that Disney license their catalogue to a company run out of an unheated, leaky house instead

superheroes come back every 25 years, give or take!

sure in one form or another but the current boom is both unprecedented and frankly unsustainable.

everybody betting their trillion dollar companies on the surety that Teen Titans 6 is gonna rule the (nonexistent) box office in 2032 confounds me. but then i'm just some dude on the internet, what do i know

xp true, i agree with that

Feel like the horrific wealth accumulation and corporate hegemony of this century is increasing and we're more likely to see things consolidating vs break-ups in the long run. Besides climate disaster I'm not sure what's going to even slow down that trend

Right now it does feel like a safe bet something from the Massive IP Farm will the biggest money-makers in 12 years. But who can know for certain

In fairness, they also have the Scooby-Doo and Space Jam franchises.

to clarify - yes the current superhero boom is unsustainable and will morph into something else at some point

but economies don't make sense anymore. how did Elon Musk make $133 Billion this year?

I mean, he didn’t.

I just like that they plan to combine the Robert Pattinson and Ben Affleck universes by bringing together Ben Affleck and... Michael Keaton?

are they gonna computer unage him or will batman be bald

this is a pretty good article about what we were just talking about:
https://musingsonmouse.substack.com/p/star-wars-nostalgia-fatigue-and-marvels
julia alexander's "Musings on Mouse" substack is well worth subscribing to

are they gonna computer unage him

I didn’t even consider this (just assumed it would be a Dark Knight thing); but now I’m expecting the worst, lol

xp is there a way to get that through RSS instead of email?

nah they're not gonna do it. assumed they're just make him Flashpoint Batman or Batman Beyond-era Bruce Wayne (like they did with Kevin Conroy in the recent Arrowverse crossover)