Citizen Kane: Classic or Dud?

That's amazing.

I was disappointed with Vertigo's ascension too--subjectively, and also objectively for the reason you mention. This is not directed at anyone who considers it to be the better film, but, as I've mentioned before, I honestly believe that, generally speaking, Vertigo benefitted from the time it was out of circulation, when it's mystique grew and grew. Kane, meanwhile, became entrenched as The Greatest Film Ever that you just had to see. It became homework.

Also Vertigo was able to slot very easily into Lacanian film theory and the idea of the male gaze. Both films are rich in detail for analysis of male exploitation of women.

Good film imo

Just occurred to me that Kane and Vertigo both have Bernard Herrmann soundtracks, although you don't tend to see, say, The 7th Voyage of Sinbad on most best-ever lists so maybe it's not that.

I’m sure I said it way upthread but Kane’s rep for me was sealed as a kid thanks to regular mentions by Charles Schulz’s characters. Which is also how I knew Rosebud was the sled.

Really? Interesting. Had to look that up.

My first encounter with CK: a Saturday morning cartoon in which Vincent Price plays a ghost obsessed with Rosebud.

i agree that vertigo is a movie for people who love to think about movies. in my experience Most People do not like vertigo v much: it is boring and slow and keeps burrowing further into an extremely off-putting performance. i like it a lot but do find it hard not to interpret the shift from kane (a playful muckraking spectacle that wants you kept giddy) as indicative of a broader turn towards the academy in terms of who gets paid for anything to think about movies.

Kael's phrase about Kane "a shallow masterpiece" applies more to Vertigo imo.

I played Kane's opening scene for elementary students for years on Welles' birthday (sometimes switching over to the shootout in Lady from Shanghai). I recall one student begging me (partly jokingly) for days afterwards to tell him (or her--can't remember) what Rosebud meant. "Can't do it--you will see it one day." I wonder if he did.

I realized yesterday that one supposed mystery--which at some point I began to accept myself--is easily explained: how was Kane's last word known if no one else was in the room? Raymond, his attendant (Mr. Sentimental), mentions the snow globe falling to the ground when Kane said Rosebud, the implication being that he was in the room watching over Kane, before the nurse enters, even though we don't see him.

My first encounter with CK: a Saturday morning cartoon in which Vincent Price plays a ghost obsessed with Rosebud.

― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn),

Wasn’t that, like, The Real Ghostbusters?

it may have been

^___^

James Agee didn't like it? I was checking the initial critical reception in 1941 and came across that. I checked Agee on Film, and it's only mentioned once, in passing; I found one more specific quote online, but can't find his review (if there is one). All of this sparked by someone writing into the aforementioned cranky baseball writer: "Awhile back you made the point that Citizen Kane began to be considered the greatest movie when an influential critic or two said it was." I was kind of hoping to be able to write in and (gently--he's cranky) correct that--I always thought it received almost unanimously ecstatic reviews--but after investigating a bit, the reception indeed seems to have been somewhat mixed.

Right there, staring me in the face, but nowhere to play it.

https://phildellio.tripod.com/rosebud.jpg