this is crazy because even in the scenario where they re-sign giannis what are they even leaving themselves with to keep improving the team? giannis will be on a super max, middleton is on a max, and jrue will be on a pretty hefty extension. and you have almost completely deprived yourself of assets
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:52 (three years ago) link
i'm stealing this from zach lowe iirc but if jrue hadn't destroyed the blazers in that series a couple years ago would anyone be rating him this highly?
― call all destroyer, Monday, November 16, 2020 11:50 PM (fifty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
ive read that hes really well rated/liked/respected around the league altogether, a ballers baller if you will
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:53 (three years ago) link
jrue is a good player, but if he really impacted winning that much, the pels would have been a better team for the past couple years.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:55 (three years ago) link
bucks clearly freaking the fuck out abt giannis leaving
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:58 (three years ago) link
as they should be, getting knocked out in the 2nd round without putting up much of a fight was a disaster
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:01 (three years ago) link
jrue has tremendous respect in the league and some gaudy advanced stats, but that trade is discounting the future pretty drastically
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:01 (three years ago) link
Jrue is basically the perfect 2b/3rd option on a contending team that already has it's shit together offensively and defensively. Much in the same way AD is the ultimate 1b/2nd option on a team that has a primary creator a la LeBron. If Giannis can develop some form of offensive repertoire besides tonka trucking to the rim come playoff time Jrue can absolutely be the piece that puts the Bucks over the hump they've been stuck in. Marc Stein is insinuating that thr Bucks are actually confident Giannis will re-up; this might've been a Kawhi-esque "Go get me another star and I'll commit" type of deal. Would be a win-win for both teams if true.
― Sabre of Paradise (trevor phillips), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:04 (three years ago) link
yeah wldnt be surprised if giannis signed off on this/agreed to stay in which case they bucks didnt really have a choice
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:11 (three years ago) link
and i do think jrue is a really good player but im not sure if he solves the bucks particular issues around having guys who can generate good looks
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:12 (three years ago) link
For the Bucks, they were able to acquire Jrue Holiday without costing themselves any of their key core players. Three firsts and two pick swaps isn’t an immense price to pay with @Giannis_An34’s decision looming on signing his extension.— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 17, 2020
The last two weeks have been filled with chatter that Giannis Antetokounmpo indeed plans to sign his five-year supermax with the Bucks before the Dec. 21 deadline to do so ...The Bucks just made a trade that suggests they must believe it— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) November 17, 2020
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:14 (three years ago) link
giannis kneecapping his franchise as ransom for him re-signing... interesting strategy
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:15 (three years ago) link
"the lebron"
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:15 (three years ago) link
xp that's my read on it, I think he really does want to stay in Milwaukee but realizes he's way too good to not have a title
giving up 3 1st rounders sucks but they were a 1 seed the last 2 years how good are those picks really gonna be
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:15 (three years ago) link
xp Yea, if only they had a guy like Malcolm Brogdon to help them with that lolol. Bucks refusal to pay him looking more and more silly by the day.
― Sabre of Paradise (trevor phillips), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:16 (three years ago) link
at least when the heat had to sign and trade basically every pick under the sun for lebron and chris bosh they were.... getting lebron and chris bosh
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:17 (three years ago) link
yeah if giannis is staying its a lot easier to give those picks up
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:17 (three years ago) link
hmmm sounds like it's time to have another conversation about opportunity cost :)
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:19 (three years ago) link
omg this covington trade is insane, do the blazers know they're prob not a playoff team next year and just traded two lottery picks for robert covington bc they should know that!!!
― Clay, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:20 (three years ago) link
im not saying they did the best lol xp
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:20 (three years ago) link
unless giannis made them do it as a prerequisite to him resigning in which case they did the best
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:21 (three years ago) link
i guess i'm not sure what the Bucks should be doing here, they have a once-in-a-generation talent who's primed to win now, no good draft picks, and a lot of money committed to Middleton & Bledsoe. this is probably the best they can do right now
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:23 (three years ago) link
and yeah I'm assuming G agreed verbally to stay, this trade doesn't make sense otherwise
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:24 (three years ago) link
i mean yeah if giannis does agree to sign a 5 year extension if you trade 3 firsts for jrue holiday i guess you do it -- but it just seems like there's something broken in the relationship there, that the franchise can't communicate to him, how about we try and improve the team in a more reasonable fashion, and we're happy to do that if you agree to sign w/ us for 5 years, and he is like, ok that's reasonable, i don't want you to mortgage the future of the franchise i'm signing w/ for the best player who happens to be on the trade market right now. it sounds like a hostage negotiation at this point which just doesn't seem positive to me.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:24 (three years ago) link
Makes perfect sense when you realize Giannis is going to sign for the money then ask out in a year or 2 like Harden is with multiple years left on that supermax. I think OKC giving PG to the Clippers only one year into his extension opened the floodgates for this sorta thing to happen more often.
― Sabre of Paradise (trevor phillips), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:27 (three years ago) link
the picks are low but the bucks are going to have very little room to improve the margins of their roster once this trade goes down. like, they can't fuck up many moves after this -- give your mid level to the wrong guy and you're in trouble. george hill was like... their only other good player in the bubble playoffs? it's putting your full faith in jrue to cover for the contributions of like 3 whole players. idk if i think he's that good
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:34 (three years ago) link
do the blazers know they're prob not a playoff team next year
it is obvious they do not know this. would they have made that trade if they did? no.
Olshey, the Blazer's GM, has no intention of blowing up the team rn. He still sees them as in their window with Lillard at top form. They are used to squeezing every bit of value from their roster and every GM tends to overvalue their players as a rule.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:36 (three years ago) link
their desire to push it w/ dame & CJ is admirable, i always love to see a good blazers team and dame wouldn't have it otherwise. but man that is a lot of capital from a team like that to give up for a player like covington.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:40 (three years ago) link
george hill was like... their only other good player in the bubble playoffs?
that was kind of the problem yeah. loved seeing him randomly go off but it was often in games they lost because everyone else sucked
Bud needs to figure out how to properly use Middleton. I'm not great at analyzing basketball but I feel like he takes a ton of bad shots in crunch time and passes up a lot of good ones otherwise.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:42 (three years ago) link
bud needs to figure out how to properly use bud
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:46 (three years ago) link
I can't see these Blazers getting to a Finals, but Dame deserves the respect of getting the best roster they can scrounge up to put around him for as long as he is at or near his peak. Lord knows what the Covington trade rationale is, but I'd never bet against Dame being able to drag any team into at least the 8 seed.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:47 (three years ago) link
I'm still new to NBA armchair-GMing here so I'm having a hard time seeing what this gets for the Pels, too. They've already got a glut of young promise so late 1st rd picks aren't all that useful aside from as bargaining chips in trades. Bledsoe's a coward. I guess it's nice to have Harris as a vet mentor? Jrue had a bad year and will never be a 1st (or maybe even 2nd) on offense but is a lockdown defender and the polar opposite of a locker room cancer.
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:48 (three years ago) link
i feel like there's a two pronged problem w/ the bucks
1. giannis has specific holes in his game that become magnified in the playoffs bcuz of how the game changes 2. middleton has a game that is actually fairly conducive to the playoffs in that it can be effective from mid range but he seems to have a problem w/ "the moment" as it were
the first seems more fixable than the second? but maybe not? or maybe the answer is letting jrue holiday be the playoff crunch time alpha guy?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:49 (three years ago) link
xp. Sorry, I get George Hill and Gary Harris's names mixed up all the time but point stands.
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:50 (three years ago) link
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:48 AM (one minute ago)bookmarkflaglink
the only thing i can think of from the pelicans side is that the picks will be far out enough that if they use them they won't have the glut of youth that they have now. or they just plan on trading them
i also think they must have some belief that bledsoe's value can be rehabilitated? he has 2 years left w/ non fully guaranteed third year. but it's hard to understand how he fits into a backcourt w/ lonzo and jj redick
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:52 (three years ago) link
Pretty wild trades there imo. Jrue is cool but all those picks cool? Seems like Bledsoe is like 75-80% of jrue I dunno how much of an upgrade that really is. Although I imagine jrue won’t transform into a total scrub in the offs.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:53 (three years ago) link
I bet they flip Bledsoe somewhere else. Pels just wanted the best package for a guy who was clearly not gonna play this season with them. Multiple picks plus a couple nice vets to flip or mentor is a nice haul no matter where the picks land.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:55 (three years ago) link
Milwaukee is landing Sacramento's Bogdan Bogdanovich in a sign-and-trade deal, sources tell ESPN.— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 17, 2020
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:14 (three years ago) link
The Bucks are trading Donte Divincenzo. Ersan Ilyasova and DJ Wilson in the deal to the Kings, sources said. https://t.co/Vrho6gZQhH— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 17, 2020
White donte was always meant to be on the kings
― Spottie, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:16 (three years ago) link
Bucks GM Jon Horst has reshaped his roster late Monday night, acquiring Jrue Holiday and Bogdan Bogdanovic. Giannis wanted to see some significant upgrades and it appears the franchise has delivered for him. Huge night for that franchise. Kings get Divincenzo, a real asset.— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 17, 2020
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:22 (three years ago) link
Whatever Bucks ownership promised Giannis in their postseason meeting ... I think they exceeded it. Swinging trades for a two-way force like Jrue Holiday and a marksman of Bogdan Bogdanovic's caliber before we even get to the draft is league-shaking work from Jon Horst and Co.— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) November 17, 2020
why are NBA beat writers like this.........
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:26 (three years ago) link
Hey when you're the team who took Bagley over Luka you take small victories wherever you can find em ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Getting anything of value in a S&T for someone who was gonna bolt for nothing is a win. I wonder if this means they've talked Buddy down from adamantly wanting out a bit.
An all of those tweets are just the team's respective GMs/front office leakers using the reporter as a mouthpiece lol; same deal as the Harden ESPN report from yesterday calling Spencer Dinwiddie "An all-star caliber guard". Propaganda to soften the public blow of trading the same # of picks that AD and PG went for for for Jrue Holiday and whatnot.
― Sabre of Paradise (trevor phillips), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:31 (three years ago) link
Woops double post sorry.
Gonna miss Donte but this is a good trade
― frogbs, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 06:31 (three years ago) link
Here is the roster in Milwaukee and staying under the hard cap:Holiday (has unlikely bonuses that count)MiddletonBogdanovic at $14.65MGiannisLopezJ. JamesThanasis7 players on minimum contracts— Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42) November 17, 2020
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 13:48 (three years ago) link
one thing about the bucks trading for not one but two versatile jack of all trades wing types is that it won't compel bud to make them play any differently than they have been.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 13:49 (three years ago) link
jrue is a destructive defender who will be great for the bucks*
*in the regular season
― la table sur la table (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 14:05 (three years ago) link
I just taste for the first time a smothie..MAN GOD BLESS AMERICA😊— Giannis Ugo Antetokounmpo (@Giannis_An34) January 20, 2014
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 14:44 (three years ago) link
Jrue/bogdan/Middleton on the wing is pretty darn nasty I gotta admit
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 14:49 (three years ago) link