I don't agree with the principle that nobody should join DSA b/c there's a shitty type of leftist dude who might be there. I do think it's absolutely fine (and kind of necessary) for an individual to express that this type of leftist dude seriously puts them off getting involved.
xxp
― emil.y, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:39 (three years ago) link
Do love that this bullshit thread title/premise has been upended hy good discourse and action itt
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:39 (three years ago) link
(no sarc...)
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:40 (three years ago) link
that's fair, but surely the solution is to join and cause a fuss about the culture, that's how things improve
― imago, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:40 (three years ago) link
I'm not dismissing the entire organization, just saying that it is likely that I would regularly come into contact with at least some assholes who probably are connected to other assholes
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
lol you are a ho xp to imago
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
oh like earth xp
― imago, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
Not if you don't feel safe enough to do that! Or even confident enough, or hell, motivated enough.
On a completely different note, I find it weird that I've just incorporated "leftist" into my vocabulary.
xxxp
― emil.y, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:42 (three years ago) link
xp - given the direction this conversation has gone I have zero confidence in my "causing a fuss about the culture" doing anything but getting mocked
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:42 (three years ago) link
thanks for sharing your experience milo
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:43 (three years ago) link
serious qualms about shitty endemic behaviour should and I hope will always be taken seriously in any leftist organisation worth the name
― imago, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:43 (three years ago) link
have there been recent DSA sexism dustups? I don't hear about this stuff anymore since I quit twitter
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:45 (three years ago) link
I should say 'sexism/harrassment/assault/etc'
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:46 (three years ago) link
it’s fine to dismiss an entire org because of shit experiences esp when the reaction to raising them is this kind of thing
― You guys are ridiculous because I’m more on the left than you (Left), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:47 (three years ago) link
except the part where I said I wasn't doing that? jesus christ
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:50 (three years ago) link
i don't read it as sarcastic.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 13 November 2020 21:51 (three years ago) link
xp I was going off the suggestion from another post above. I’m sorry if I implied it was your position. it’s not sarcastic though
― You guys are ridiculous because I’m more on the left than you (Left), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
got it, apologeis
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Saturday, 14 November 2020 00:39 (three years ago) link
*apologies
but surely the solution is to join and cause a fuss about the culture, that's how things improve
― imago, Friday, November 13, 2020 1:40 PM (yesterday)
hahaha that is the classic hetero cis-white guy response! ... this is why the term "emotional labor" is so common in the QTPOC left, as well as the focus on organizing amongst themselves where they are at the front, as opposed to waiting for the cis-white men (and women sometimes) to STFU.
― sarahell, Saturday, 14 November 2020 15:47 (three years ago) link
not saying anyone has to, but wouldn't you have to join first to know?
― plax (ico), Saturday, 14 November 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
You don't need to join a group to anticipate how its culture will be affecting you, especially in cases like the very vocal and very web-present dirtbag left.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:21 (three years ago) link
web-present would be the important part, no?
ie
No one has described "shit experiences" with their local DSA or any related organization, AFAICT? There's an assumption that these bad people online would be pervasive in this entirely unconnected organization.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:59 (three years ago) link
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:21 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
it seems a bit far to literally say that this organisation specifically is unsafe though don't you think?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:03 (three years ago) link
Arguing that a very vocal online presence associated with a political persuasion wouldn't necessarily be present at IRL meetings associated with that political persuasion is more of a stretch, IMHO.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:19 (three years ago) link
Like if some DSA dude harassed my friend online, I'd be pretty loathe to go to my local DSA for the first time. Don't really understand why that's so hard to grasp.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:20 (three years ago) link
and there are plenty of progressive / left groups and causes to participate in that aren't the DSA. Like ... this argument just feels kinda absurd to me at this point.
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:25 (three years ago) link
but surely those would also be unsafe?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
associated with a political persuasion
some DSA dude harassed my friend online
This is the assumption that I'm referring to. There hasn't even been an accusation that "DSA dudes" harassed anyone's friends, but that's the thread being run with?
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:20 (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
but all that was claimed was that people, who might be the kind of people to go to a dsa meeting because they have leftist opinions, would be there and subsequently it was implied that it was unsafe.
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:43 (three years ago) link
I guess I didn't take it that way. I took it as 'some DSA-associated people harassed my friend, and I don't feel good going to a DSA meeting as a result.'
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link
― plax (ico), Saturday, November 14, 2020 4:35 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago)
not necessarily, there are plenty of groups that don't have "those dudes" in them because they were formed by people who didn't want to have to deal with "those dudes"
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:15 (three years ago) link
but how can you be sure?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:18 (three years ago) link
they restrict membership to womxn and non-binary ppl?
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:19 (three years ago) link
like one way to not have to deal with "those dudes" is to not allow dudes in yr group?
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:20 (three years ago) link
so the "specific category" is men or leftist men?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:25 (three years ago) link
I will leave it to each individual what they deem safe or unsafe for themselves.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:32 (three years ago) link
so would i. but there is a difference between saying something would make you feel unsafe and something is unsafe
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:35 (three years ago) link
why on earth would you think I'm saying that someone is not entitled to feel how they feel?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 02:22 (three years ago) link
dsa guy and his twitter gf pic.twitter.com/Rn4FnSUqTZ— the once again welfare king (@singlepayertom) November 14, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 15 November 2020 12:56 (three years ago) link
Pretty incredible how a bunch of dudes keep questioning the logic and making fun of a woman who noted that there are a ton of really abusive assholes associated with the DSA online, and that she thus didn't feel safe going to meetings of the DSA. Really beginning to understand more and more why ILX is such a boys club.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 14:56 (three years ago) link
I don't see anybody making fun of anyone or questioning the logic of not wanting to go
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 15:27 (three years ago) link
in fact as far as I can see every poster has affirmed the idea that if one feels uncomfortable for whatever reason then one is being perfectly reasonable in declining to go
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 15:47 (three years ago) link
how about joining the group, expressing your concerns about the individual in question to the individual in question, and then if the issue is not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns about the individual in question privately to the leader(s) of the group, and then if the issue is still not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns to the entire group?
― the burrito that defined a generation, Sunday, 15 November 2020 16:26 (three years ago) link
Yesterday @nycDSA endorsed 6 *amazing* candidates for City Council.It's been one of the joys of our lives to be a part of the @DSAForTheMany slate & so @JabariBrisport and I wanted to properly pass the baton on to our new brothers & sisters in #DSAfortheCity.📸: @karakul pic.twitter.com/KDuIfMg89V— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:15 (three years ago) link
lol they gave them roses like in The Bachelor, drove around the city to all 3 candidates they're endorsing and took pics for the soc media. Genius! That was yesterday--today they're doing the Brooklyn ones apparently. I love to see it <3
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link
We started the day with @tiffany_caban.A career public defender, Tiffany's running in District 22 - my home district!When she ran for DA, she radically redefined safety so that it leaves none of us behind. Her fight continues this year & she won't stop until justice is won. pic.twitter.com/nDEXZgMGWO— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:19 (three years ago) link
tbf, though it's been a while since I've personally heard of such cases (again, off twitter), there were definitely some instances where the formal group/chapter mechanisms for dealing with abusers/offenders were clearly not adequate
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:24 (three years ago) link
zohran rocks
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:37 (three years ago) link
assholes associated with the DSA online
We just cleared that up but you decided to dip back to it for some reason, that's not a claim anyone has made.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Sunday, 15 November 2020 20:10 (three years ago) link