What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

I'm not trying to win YOU over, how are y'all still not grasping that

GD, it's true that some people don't like DTP, but some people love it and it works for them. Up to politicians to adjust. It only gets complicated when you try to shove one message on a diverse population with different life experiences.

No doubt. My point is I don't think DTP will ever work on some people who nonetheless are receptive to at least some of the objectives it is shorthand for. It's worth trying out different messaging to reach them.

"some people"

I'm arguing that some people might see it this way while I'm making clear I understand what's the point of DTP and you guys are jumping on me.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:40 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

That’s the definition of concern trolling

― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby)

So you think VHS was being disingenuous there?

I'll stand corrected once I see polls in rural areas of swing states and conservatives states that clearly demonstrate that DTP works there.

As much as I'd like to just light every racist White person in the US on fire, can we all agree that that isn't going to happen and that some of them will need to agree that defunding the police will make their lives better before it actually happens and it's not a bad thing to use whatever rhetoric is necessary to bring them to that conclusion?

I'd love it if Democrats actually had the balls to run on the platform and explain it to the constituents but since that isn't going to happen due to everyone being a gigantic bag of shit, can we think about a path that gives us the same endpoint but allows the giant shit balls to pretend they're made of marzipan?

It's worth trying out different messaging to reach them.

My argument is that it's up to the politicians in those areas to try out different messaging, not up to progressives who found a winner in DTP. You can't possibly ask them to change something that obviously resonate with their constituents.

I mean it's also just not going to happen because...Democrats xp

I think it's happening slowly thanks to progressives but as milo said it's a new concept that needs to evolve organically.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22defund%20the%20police%22&geo=US

The first time the phrase was used enough to even register in Google Trends was June.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22black%20lives%20matter%22

Black Lives Matter registers for three years before attitudes went positive.

It is entirely possible that 'defund the police' will never go positive in rural areas, who pretty much by definition don't have the issues that urban areas do. Has Black Lives Matter gone positive in those areas? Has same-sex marriage?

Guess I don't understand why people feel attached to that slogan. I'd love to confiscate guns, and I'm sure CONFISCATE ALL GUNS plays well with some people, but it alienates even more people. Ppl who are needed to get some gun regulations passed.

Because it's a good slogan that lays out a desire to rein in American police while leaving the door open to societal improvements (defunding? that means there's more money in the budget for other things. etc.), without just being Fuck The Pigs. Which is my personal slogan.

And yet I think it's a bad slogan. Funny how that works.

Patriot act is brilliant labeling. Who wants to vote against something called that.

this 100% sounds like nazi bullshit aimed contemptuously at rubes

No one is telling you that you have to get it tattooed above your heart.

"fuck the police" has had staying power you gotta admit

The Patriot Act also didn't have to be sold to the public. It was written overnight (Joe Biden says by Joe Biden) and passed with blinding speed without being read, much less presented to constituents.

Your response to that is "give it time". So ok let's see what happens. I'll be glad if it turns out to be effective. In the meantime there's no harm in trying out other messaging.

I would go with 'No more parking tickets'

The Only Good Cop Is a Traffic Cop

"this 100% sounds like nazi bullshit aimed contemptuously at rubes "

Exactly! Now you're on the trolley

Yes but they would have to forever be labeled as someone who voted against the Patriot Act

forgive me if someone here has already explained why they think it’s a bad slogan, but.... why is it bad

Well no parking enforcement is one of the things we want to move out of the police department entirely.

But we should also ban parking.

62 Democrats voted against the Patriot Act

Brad it’s bad because it alienates a certain subset of people who would share the aim of defunding the police but only if you use other words for it (??????)

+ Bernie

It did not seem to torpedo his legislative career

(And wacky racist libertarian Ron Paul)

Vermont isn't very patriotic ime

There's data that backs that up, Mr snideypants

Xxxp

ppl just also love to say “it’s a bad phrase” without explaining why. xgau was like “i’m an editor, it’s a bad phrase.” bitch, why

Milo you are not this dense. You're just trying to play some tedious "Imma find something to pick apart" game. Yawn

You have to listen to him line edit you on the phone, see.

milo is fundamentally correct that bringing up the patriot act was silly

It's negative. Unlike medicare for all. I don't think that makes it bad per se, but obviously some segments of the population are going to react negatively to it.

Because ppl hear it and think "whoa there will be no cops, my family will be sitting ducks, it'll be anarchy"

Yes some segments, who aren’t as affected by the issues at hand and whose representatives are not necessarily responsible for addressing them

fucking Christ stfu about the fucking patriot act you mentalists

I love how a focus group of Trump voters someone tweeted about earlier today is “data”

Anyway that’s Mx Snideypants to you

Yes some segments, who aren’t as affected by the issues at hand and whose representatives are not necessarily responsible for addressing them

But they still need to adress the issue to their constituents because it’s now a national debate.

There's more data than that, dillweed
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-like-the-ideas-behind-defunding-the-police-more-than-the-slogan-itself/

Whoever conflated what I argued with what VHS is arguing, never fucking do that.

I have no problem with DTP, ATP, FTP, ACAB, or any of these slogans. I've been doing community work around stuff like this for 20+ years more or less.

But if changing the slogan for different demographics might do some work at getting the police state dismantled, or getting fewer people killed on the way to abolition, I don't see the problem with that, and frankly think it's juvenile and fucked to see it another way.

lol that’s what I am saying

But you betray an actual belief that there need to be police in your responses, VHS, and I don't actually believe that.

So, regarding the slogan, sure, but we are not the same.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan because every American not posting in this thread has been brainwashed by 60 years of televised copaganda. Even people who don't like cops, on some level, like cops. Feel comforted by cops. Think the world is full of Bad People from whom cops will save them. If you want to get the idea into people's heads that cops should have a smaller role in daily life, that other agencies should be better funded and more available to solve problems that cannot be solved with bullets and tear gas (an idea I agree with 1000%), you're going to need to say that. You're going to need to say More Money For Crisis Teams* (*and less money for cops). When you say Defund the Police, you're saying Take Away the Cops. And even people who know how racist and fascistic cops are (never mind how useless they are 90 percent of the time; they're basically janitors with guns) are not going to be able to overcome an entire lifetime's worth of programming in an instant and hop on board for your crusade.

IOW tell people what you want to give them, not what you want to take away.

"Defund the Police" is the worst "I'm smarter than you, shut up" lefty bullshit sloganeering I've seen in years.

ThNk